Reward for failure? (controversial!)

[Oldsparkey]

I'll apologise at the start for the length of this OP - I'm on holiday with feck all to do in the evenings except drink........

The argument that you need a certain type of manager to get you out of the Championship but a different one to keep you out of it rumbles on. It'll be very interesting to see how Farke and Wilder get on next season in the Prem. Of the bottom 5 clubs this year, Hughes got the bullet at Southampton, Jokanovic and Ranieri both went from Fulham, Wagner from Huddersfield and now Hughton has had the elbow - only our old Neil gets a pat on the back and the carry on signal - is that right or just the easy option?

I'm not saying Warnock has let us down for one minute, but maybe the ultimate task exceeded his capabilities and I can't see that changing - he's been in the game far too long for that. Now we're back down, there's a great argument for retaining Warnock for next season in the Championship because it's suited his style in the past, but to assume the Championship is the same division it was 10/15 years back would be another mistake.

We took the chance 2 seasons back, but it's a division that's becoming more and more polarised like the Prem. Even with Norwich and Sheff Utd now gone, there are still the Villas, Derbys, Middlesboughs and West Broms at one end, and the perennial also-ran clubs (Reading, Millwall, Wigan) with those that tend to bounce from League One like Rotherham and Barnsley at the other end. At some point we need to look further down the road as to where we want to be and the style of football we want to watch - bit of a crossroads at the moment.

I've watched City for over 45 years and we've never been known for anything other than a "gutsy" club and I'm OK with that up to a point. However, the game has changed. Although we're very unlikely to ever match the established elite clubs, we should be able to compete in footballing terms with clubs like Leicester, Wolves and Watford, let alone the Bournemouths of this world. We need to work towards that even if it means some short term pain.

Getting back up at the first attempt is an obvious target and we'd all take that right now but when (if) we get up there - what then?

 

[BluefromBridgend]

I'm delighted he is staying, even if only for one more year.

There is no one better at Championship level.

I have no doubt a squad will be assembled to do the job.

The "top 6" of this league will hold no fears for us. Beaten them before, can do it again.

I agree that what we do in 12 months should we go up again is another matter. Warnock has said, tongue in cheek or otherwise, he has no intention of managing again in the Prem. That being the case, if we are in the running come January, we should be casting our net for our 20/21 managerial options.

 

[remote]

I'll apologise at the start for the length of this OP - I'm on holiday with feck all to do in the evenings except drink........

The argument that you need a certain type of manager to get you out of the Championship but a different one to keep you out of it rumbles on. It'll be very interesting to see how Farke and Wilder get on next season in the Prem. Of the bottom 5 clubs this year, Hughes got the bullet at Southampton, Jokanovic and Ranieri both went from Fulham, Wagner from Huddersfield and now Hughton has had the elbow - only our old Neil gets a pat on the back and the carry on signal - is that right or just the easy option?

I'm not saying Warnock has let us down for one minute, but maybe the ultimate task exceeded his capabilities and I can't see that changing - he's been in the game far too long for that. Now we're back down, there's a great argument for retaining Warnock for next season in the Championship because it's suited his style in the past, but to assume the Championship is the same division it was 10/15 years back would be another mistake.

We took the chance 2 seasons back, but it's a division that's becoming more and more polarised like the Prem. Even with Norwich and Sheff Utd now gone, there are still the Villas, Derbys, Middlesboughs and West Broms at one end, and the perennial also-ran clubs (Reading, Millwall, Wigan) with those that tend to bounce from League One like Rotherham and Barnsley at the other end. At some point we need to look further down the road as to where we want to be and the style of football we want to watch - bit of a crossroads at the moment.

I've watched City for over 45 years and we've never been known for anything other than a "gutsy" club and I'm OK with that up to a point. However, the game has changed. Although we're very unlikely to ever match the established elite clubs, we should be able to compete in footballing terms with clubs like Leicester, Wolves and Watford, let alone the Bournemouths of this world. We need to work towards that even if it means some short term pain.

Getting back up at the first attempt is an obvious target and we'd all take that right now but when (if) we get up there - what then?

Is Warnock staying then Sparkey?

 

[ninian opinion]

Is Warnock staying then Sparkey?

Yes according to this

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-warnock-reveals-hes-staying-16275945

 

[clingo]

I couldn't make my mind up, but now, and going along with what sparkey says about a changing Championship, I'm beginning to think that he should stay. His record of getting teams promoted over a fair period of time, surely demonstrates that he can adapt to changes. I know he dis't adapt to well in the Prem, and he was overly negative, but I think he's probably learned from that too. I'm for giving him a season - I think.

 

[irishbluebird]

I believe that Warnock is the best man for the job...for now. Let's see how the results go. It was encouraging to see that we started to play football in the PL as opposed to the hoof ball tactics we used in the Championship. I wonder what next season's strategy will be. Of course a lot will depend on what players we can bring in and a top goalscorer is a must.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Warnock may well get us back up and we'd all take that, but we need to stay there this time. Warnock having stated that this is his last season and he wouldn't want to manage in the Prem again would indicate that's the plan. Having said that, who's to say someone else new couldn't go straight for it this season?

Stick or twist is the question and probably the fear of the unknown could have been the deciding factor that kept him here.

He has the persona of an insurance policy that's got you covered, or even a broad spectrum antibiotic that'll attack anything that's got a whistle or a flag...

Whatever, I'll be back there next season in the Championship like many others and they'll get our full support. It's to be Neil so fair enough, but through all that, we shouldn't be afraid of expressing opinions as to how we feel about the way it's going even if it comes across as ungrateful at the time.

 

[ninian opinion]

On the one hand watching a team like Norwich and Brentford with their attacking philosophies is pleasing on the eye (bit like Dave Jones’ sides) but can be inconsistent whilst on the other hand a Warnock team whilst often dull, does tend to get results at championship level.

Now NW is staying we can just hope he gets the players he needs to supplement the best of the remaining squad.

 

[remote]

On the one hand watching a team like Norwich and Brentford with their attacking philosophies is pleasing on the eye (bit like Dave Jones’ sides) but can be inconsistent whilst on the other hand a Warnock team whilst often dull, does tend to get results at championship level.

Now NW is staying we can just hope he gets the players he needs to supplement the best of the remaining squad.

He's been told the money is there for 6 signings. Don't know if that's 50p each, but it certainly won't be £50M each.
3 starters and 3 squad members he's said.
He's also said that when he steps away, he will have helped recruit his replacement. Whether that is in the championship or the premiership, time will tell (I'm ruling out div 1).
At least it sounds like there's a plan. Can't say we've had that before.

 

[BrizzleBluebird]

Continuity is definitely the required order of the day right now.

The squad (or at least those that have spoken out) all want him to stay and no one knows this division better.

However, I would like us to try keep possession a little more this time around. I have no issues with getting the ball forward quickly but we need to be a little more accurate with it.

We also need to get his replacement lined up early and brought into the fold before seasons end so the squad get used to the new gaffer early. (Can't see it though).

Also think the new manager will also need to be fairly experienced as I can't see Tan going with young and experimental ever again.

 

[taffthefish]

For what it's worth, here's my opinion.
Neil Warnock is adept at getting teams promoted. Eight promotions across the leagues is no easy task. However, he is a defence first and backs against the walls manager. Nothing wrong with that, but we have seen hoofball for too long.
He is happy to let the opposition have the King's share of the ball and it has worked well for him, if not the fans.

In Vincent Tan we have an owner who puts his money on the table and wants to see premiership football come to the Bluebirds and remain there.
He has been quoted as saying "shoot from anywhere" or words to that effect. This implies he wants the Bluebirds to play a more attacking game of football.

Can these two differing philosophies meet to bring us both promotion and a prolonged period in the top flight?
The short answer is no.

Neil Warnock gave us the unexpected by getting us promoted to the top flight. Unfortunately our stay was short-lived (depending on your perspective) and came straight back down.
In my opinion the reason we came straight back down was Neil Warnock. His brand of football cannot survive in the top flight. Too much possession given away needlessly and allowing the opposition to come at us for most of the games we played.
Our strike force were left stranded more often than not and only had scraps to feed on. Many a time the striker had to come back and collect the ball themselves and this in turn nullified their threat in front of goal.
Too many games saw us to perform to our potential only when we were behind in the game. Why can't we play good attacking football from the start?
We all understand it is a results driven game and if you want to be the best, you must compete against the best. Sadly we didn't do this often enough.

As Sparky named this thread "Reward for Failure" then yes, Neil Warnock has been rewarded for failure. However, his record for promotion is second to none and I see the sense in keeping him on board for next season. Will he change his brand of football to a more attacking policy and more possession?

If they are to bring a replacement in to be mentored by Neil Warnock, will that person be happy to adopt what many see as negative football or will he be happy to see it out until his/her opportunity comes to lead?

Food for thought, on a personal note, I am happy to see Neil Warnock in charge next season, but I sincerely hope he adopts a more attacking style and brings in the right players.

 

[remote]

In Vincent Tan we have an owner who puts his money on the table and wants to see premiership football come to the Bluebirds and remain there.
He has been quoted as saying "shoot from anywhere" or words to that effect. This implies he wants the Bluebirds to play a more attacking game of football.

Can these two differing philosophies meet to bring us both promotion and a prolonged period in the top flight?
The short answer is no.

Hey Taff.

I agree with most of your point but have a slightly different perspective on the conflicting perspectives.
We had a high number of clean sheets in the premiership, 10 (joint 8th), better than wolves, arsenal, manure, amongst the rest. So something is right.
What we didn't do was score a lot of goals.
I'm ok with the defensive nature of Neils game plan, but not what we do when we have the ball. Or more importantly, and to use the de rigueur pundit buzz phrase, what we do during TRANSITION. If we could improve the change from defensive into attack, we might be able to serve the two masters.
Its why I've been banging on about 4231 as a formation. The 2 in front of the 4 serves neil. How we transition into attack (433, 442?) is the bit that's missing. Quickly moving to support the striker is the puzzle. Solve that and we could serve our second master as well.

If, and its a big if, the front 4 that started against manure can consistently play like that, its the 2 in front of the 4 that become vital.

Besides 6 new players, is another coach needed alongside Blackwell and Jepson? Do we need an attack coach?

 

[taffthefish]

Remote, funny you should mention Blackwell and Jepson. As I wrote my opinion it was in the back of my mind, can we change those two for another duo?

 

[remote]

Remote, funny you should mention Blackwell and Jepson. As I wrote my opinion it was in the back of my mind, can we change those two for another duo?

If Blackwell and Jepson go, it will be because Colin has gone. They come as a team.
Blackwell and Jepson are obviously trusted by Colin and can deliver on what he wants. Its augmenting what they give us with the bit that is missing.
Its the way sport is these days. American football have always had a plethora of coach types. Rugby has defence coaches, attack, scrum, lineout, etc.
Don't see a problem with us adding an 'attack coach'. Maybe get Ernie or Blake back as 'finishing coaches'.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Remote, funny you should mention Blackwell and Jepson. As I wrote my opinion it was in the back of my mind, can we change those two for another duo?

We can but Warnock wont - I bet they agreed part of his contract for this year.

They've been with Warnock for years, and if they were shipped out I doubt Warnock would be here.

 

[remote]

We can but Warnock wont - I bet they agreed part of his contract for this year.

They've been with Warnock for years, and if they were shipped out I doubt Warnock would be here.

That's what I said.

 

[Oldsparkey]

That's what I said.

Posted before I saw yours - I'm on satellite delay down here in deepest Deveon.......

 

[remote]

Posted before I saw yours - I'm on satellite delay down here in deepest Deveon.......

like good comedy sparkey.

Timing is everything.

You picked the right time for a break. Weather is great.
The sun shines on the righteous (or is that riotous?).
I've often be told its that the devil looks after his own.

 

[Oldsparkey]

like good comedy sparkey.

Timing is everything.

You picked the right time for a break. Weather is great.
The sun shines on the righteous (or is that riotous?).
I've often be told its that the devil looks after his own.

Partial to a bit of trgedy myself - our performances last season.

Bliss down here at the moment remote. Called in at Colin's farm but he was out scouting on his tractor.....

 

[remote]

Partial to a bit of trgedy myself - our performances last season.

Bliss down here at the moment remote. Called in at Colin's farm but he was out scouting on his tractor.....

Should be fast enough to catch most of his targets.

Funnily enough, I'll be out in a bit scouting FOR a tractor. The last one died.....

Its nice and sunny in Cheshire as well sparkey. Could do with a bit of cloud and rain though. This weather isn't conducive to productive trout fishing. Out on lake Vyrnwy tomorrow. Forecast is a bit cloudier.