A fast run race would definitely have suited Flintshire the best so he would have finished in front of the other two older horses (especially as I think that Dolniya does not want it quick). I have to say that at this juncture, I am not sure that he would have beaten Golden Horn. Flintshire is a horse that makes his challenge and then just runs on, so he is always going to be susceptible to a horse with a genuine turn of foot (e.g. Treve in last year’s Arc).
QM I don't think I was making many of the points you seem to think I was. I agree with a lot of what you say
impossible to judge how good a horse Golden Horn might be at this stage. I like the fact that he now goes unbeaten into the Eclipse though. It probably won't happen as he is likely to be rested but he is the kind of horse (and jockey of course) that would reinvigorate the King George at Ascot in late July as I believe he could win that as well. I am not at all surprised to see the TV audience fall yet again, the race is becoming simply invisible to the general public. (the actual day on the downs by the way continues to improve and I am not surprised that the number of people was up to 125,000) depressingly though no one in my office last week was even aware that the Derby was taking place. Sad though that the Ireland v England football match (non event of the century) will have been watched by far more people. It just goes to show that the timing of the race has absolutely no bearing on the number of people watching - if it was run at 7pm I still don't think it would make much difference, the sport on TV just needs to present itself better. However there is probably more to it than that, there just isn't the interest in following the sport week by week, and if people are not doing that there is no reason why they would suddenly tune in to watch the Derby on a sunny Saturday afternoon.
What is more worrying is that some people who are interested in horse racing, especially the major races, weren't aware that Saturday was Derby Day. I find that very sad. Can someone remind me what Racing for Change was set up to do, how much it cost and how successful it was.
Sound the alarms. Man the lifeboats. Military men raise your weapons. I’m about to commit the cardinal sin of after-timing. I did back Golden Horn on Saturday. But am only detailing this so as not to be accused of talking though my pocket! I thought Golden Horn was a very good Derby winner but must say that I was absolutely appalled by the behaviour of that Dettori creature in the winner’s enclosure afterwards. His ‘affected’ ‘look at me, look at me’ behaviour was beyond belief and every time the conversation moved onto the horse or someone else he proceeded to behave like some sort of lunatic in order to bring the focus back onto him. Quite frankly I believe that connections would have been well within their rights to tazer him on several occasions. Re the Channel 4 coverage I thought it was Dire, with a capital ‘D’ and can understand why figures have sunk to new lows. Graham Cunningham is the worst pundit I have ever seen, on any sport, Gina whateverhernameis is ‘dead behind the eyes’ and can do nothing but read an autocue half satisfactory, Richie Persad has never to my knowledge said anything insightful whilst Brian Gleeson is just frankly ridiculous (he repeated what old girl Tanya had just said on at least half a dozen occasions whilst his ‘I’m in the know’ attitude fools no one). There is one way to turn around these figures and that is to bring back John Francome, old boy McCririck, Derek ‘Thommo’ Thompson and Mike Cattermole. But I can’t see that happening as the TV Exec’s would have to massively admit they were woring. Also, why wasn’t old boy Gok commenting on the fashion and matters in general??? He may be the 2nd campest chap in the Isle, behind that bloke who calls himself Prince Harry, but at least he offers some sort of opinion and isn’t as dull as most of the others on the broadcast.
As I said before the race, the Derby had 2 class horses in the race, and those 2 fought out the finish, as I expected they would. Golden Horn really impressed me the way he seen out the distance, he was really powering home in the last couple of furlongs. Whilst I don't take times to seriously, it's still a positive that the time was quick. I can definitely see Golden Horn beating the older horses in races like the Eclipse. Agree though that soft ground could be an issue, so they may struggle to find an end of season target for him. The thought of Gleneagles taking on Golden Horn in races like the Irish champion stakes, is something that would really excite me. Though I'm not convinced connections of either horse would be to keen on laying there horses reputation on the line like that. From what I've seen I'd side with Golden Horn, and that's why I feel Coolmoore especially would try to avoid a clash. As for the runner up Jack Hobbs, a good effort from him on ground that didn't suit. Judging by the time the ground had really dried up, so he did well considering. I think the Irish Derby would be the ideal next race for him. Big galloping track, and hopefully some more cut in the ground. He could come into his own though later in the season, when the ground is softer. I'd definitely be keen to back him on good, good to soft ground against the older horses. So the first 2 for me can win G1s against the older horses, but only time will tell
the thing is it doesnt really matter who is presenting if no one is aware that the event is taking place in the first place! the same presenters are in place for the Grand National and the viewing figures are still huge - there is far too much focus on which channel it is on, who the presenters are, what time the race is on etc etc. the bottom line is this - the Derby is the most famous flat race in the world but yet for some reason the interest just isnt there anymore whilst for the Grand National there is. Why is this???
You get what you pay for in life. So if your to tight to fork out for RUK every month, then your gonna have put up with bad coverage on channel 4. I would never watch a race on channel 4, as you don't even get a decent view of the action. The funny camera angle they use, makes in running betting alot tougher. RUK is by no means perfect, but it's a lot better than Channel 4 and At the races for that matter. Its ashame they don't scrap at the races, and just let RUK cover all tracks, as they do a much better job than them aswell. Was glad when ATR lost Ascot. I can't have C4 and ATR ruining the Royal meeting
Racing folk in the UK love the Derby and see it as the be all and end all of racing, but the big wide world doesn't really give a hoot about the 3 year old classic or racing in general. Sadly, if pressed, the two races that are most likely to be mentioned are the Grand National and the Kentucky Derby. The former by a country mile.
The Kentucky Derby is only big in America, it doesn't generate anymore global interest than The Derby does. There was only one non American horse in this years Kentucky Derby, where as there where quite a few horses from other country's in our Derby. Ireland, France and Germany all had runners. People should never forget that all Derbys around the world, are nothing more than imitations of our Derby.
They be mere imitations, but I'm afraid UK racing culture can't keep pace with American media output. I live about as far from the UK as anyone and I can tell you that as far as those around me are concerned, the good folks at large know next to nothing of the Epsom Derby. But even here, the only Derby that received any attention, and it was limited in the extreme, was the American one. And the only horse getting outside coverage of any real kind is American Pharoah. In lands far off, the only race that stands alone in casual chat around here is the Grand National. Sorry Shergy, but I'm afraid as far as the big picture is concerned, the Epsom Derby is pretty much a non event. I think I've read on this forum of the lack of interest even in your own back yard. If the good people of the UK can hardly raise an interest, then how can we be expected to do any better?
Il bring you back to this post when California Chrome gets his doors blown off by our superior horses at Royal Ascot. Remember Animal Kingdom? You also seem to be ignoring how much influence Epsom Derby winners have had around the world in the breeding barns. Plenty have had a lot of success in Australia aswell. So You Think was from a Derby winner, and he was looked upon as the best horse for years down under
Ahhh my friend, you're preaching to the converted Shergy. I'm a horse racing fan, but it still leaves us supporters as some kind of floating filth in the social pond of life. We can all point to just how important our own little swill of muck may be, but to the world at large, racing is rubbish. From time to time, usually around the occasional carnival, we manage to shove their faces into our precious little slime ridden sinkholes, all in the hope of shredding them of their ethical dignity, but they all too often emerge with their morals intact. We on the other hand come off looking more shadier for the exercise. We have to face facts Shergy, we're seen by the larger populace as little more than apologists for a very ugly practice. P.S. So You Think was a wonderful race horse, but he was the subject of a massive media push. He was far from being the best thing we've produced. I loved the horse, but he was pretty much the flavour of the day.
I think, as far as breeding goes, the most important race in the World is the Epsom Derby. This is because to win a good Epsom Derby the horse not only needs stamina and speed but it has to be well balanced, As breeding is about attempting to produce the perfect conformation it is no surprise that good Derby winners are sought after. I say good because something has to win it so not all Derby winners will be sought after. Top sires are however used so much that, by definition, the combination of that sire and all mares used will produce a variation of conformations, mentality etc and some will be useless. Only a few will be top notch. Why? Because each mating only produces one foal and it is pot luck what comes out. In dog breeding, which has the same aims, you may get 10 or 11 puppies in one litter and, unless carefully line bred, one can end up with a wide range of puppies. One will be superior to the others as puppies (but not necessarily the superior as they mature) and some will not be good enough for the show ring. The breeder has weeks to assess each one before selecting a "best of litter". Thoroughbred breeders do not have that luxury. Just looking at the sire and dam can be very misleading. There are some very choppy pedigrees where predicting what will result from a mating is almost impossible. The risk is reduced significantly by careful line breeding (which must include the occasional outcross to improve specific (relative) weaknesses).
Agree with everything you written Ron, but we're fans of the sport. The question is, why is the world at large turning it's back on horse racing? I read that the USA has seen a 50% drop on punting over a couple of decades. Most of the cash is now being directed to other gambling outlets like sports betting. I also read that UK punting revenue on horses has dropped by about 10% in the last couple of years (if memory serves) while punting on football has grown by 20%. Poker and the like are also attracting the younger punter, they are more exotic. If I walked up my street and asked everyone of the opinion on the Epsom Derby result, they'd tell me get the **** off their property. But that could be because I'm a ****.
I guess because they don’t like to see horses continually slapped on the rump and kicked in the belly. The point about the growth of sports betting is a good one and the increase in betting on ‘other’ sports is only going to rise as the old boys who wager on the gee-gees aren’t being replaced by the younger brigade, punting wise, as they, in the main, prefer to wager on events like football and the machines. The filly who runs my local Corals said to me the other day that I was one of the few ‘youngsters’ (I guess she thinks I’m younger than I actually am – must be my boyish good looks) who bets on the horses anymore with most my age, and younger, opting for the other 2 ‘outlets’.
