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Relegation Watch 2015-16

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Cruyff's Turn, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Sorry yes, that's what I meant. Amended my post accordingly.

    Yep. I'm happy overall. We were well capable of getting at least 5 points last month, but we've already overachieved this month, so I reckon we're back on track.

    Here's hoping we can get at least a point against the Hammers <ok>
     
    #81
  2. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I watched the Leicester vs West Ham cup match and wasn't very impressed by either, TBH. They both played top players as well, but West Ham seemed very ponderous and slow in the build-up, passing backwards to retain possession most of the time. They were playing away, however, and may be more direct at home, but I think we have a real chance for points in our next two games.
     
    #82
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  3. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I see that we've now moved from 16th up to 15th in the Oddschecker relegation tables after WBA lost 3-2 at home to Everton.
     
    #83
  4. Cruyff's Turn

    Cruyff's Turn Well-Known Member

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    It's looking good compared to being second favourites for the drop at the start of the season. With a bit more luck (And better refs) we could have been even further away from the trapdoor..
     
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  5. THURNBY YELLOW

    THURNBY YELLOW Well-Known Member

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    I really think that the next game is massive. A win against Leicester and we will then be level on points with them, when until recently they were actually second in the league.
     
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  6. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I agree Thurnby and I hope this one goes they way of the Bournemouth confrontation a while back. That could make all the difference.
     
    #86
  7. Cruyff's Turn

    Cruyff's Turn Well-Known Member

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    Poor old Cherries, horrendous injury problems. Mings, Gradel and now Wilson, all long term.
     
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  8. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    It does seem very unfair in their first season in the PL. With an ACL knee injury, they'll be lucky to get him back at all this season.
     
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  9. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    For those looking for an insight into AN's tactics, this article provides it in detail and is well worth a read:

    https://tacticiancolumn.wordpress.c...es-in-the-direction-of-alex-neil-and-norwich/

    Here's a taster from it: "For the majority of this contest Norwich were everything West Ham want to be. Monopolising possession for large spells and repeatedly carving out chances through a bold attacking approach based on technical excellence."
     
    #89
  10. RobRoy

    RobRoy Member

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    I just hope the owners of Newcastle, Sunderland, Liverpool and ......... don't read that article.
    Certainly a worthwhile read and every Canaries fan who was moaning about the dearth of transfer activity should read that article!!!!!

    many thanks RER. <ok>
     
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  11. Catalan Canary

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    Poetry to my ears
     
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  12. goldeneadie

    goldeneadie Well-Known Member

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    Extremely well written article. A joy to read.
     
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  13. Cruyff's Turn

    Cruyff's Turn Well-Known Member

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    That is my worry with Neil. If we continue to remain in the comfort zone the draw of a manager who can take a mid Championship side in the doldrums and turn them into a Premiership side will prove irresistible to a slew of strugglers and under achievers.
     
    #93
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  14. RobRoy

    RobRoy Member

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    I hope he'll stay for this season at least and then we will become more attractive to players who want to come to Carrow Road and play exciting attacking football, whilst at the same time not ignoring the importance of defence.
     
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  15. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    AN spoke last year about his ambition of 'building a dynasty' here. I don't think he'll jump ship any time soon. He has a clear idea of what he wants and how to achieve it and he's already showing his ability to do just that with a solid start. It also shows in the players he has brought in and how he's organised the team tactically, and Bilic is not the only opposing manager he has completely out-thought and out-fought. I'd say we've been the better team in 5 out of 7 matches so far because of that and should have more points than we do. The praise in the article above focuses on his tactics and those are at the heart of what he is building.

    Unlike Hughton, who tried to 're-educate' players into a structured system, AN's approach is far more fluid, based around key 'pivot positions'. There's a very good discussion of this in the PinkUn board thread entitled 'Parma's Tactics Masterclass 9' which I'll try to summarize here. The key 'pivot positions' are DM and striker and this explains why Mulumbu and Mbokani were key targets this summer. The other key positions to achieve the fluidity are pacey wingers which is why AN signed both Brady and Jarvis. Starting players are chosen for their ability to counter opposing players each week using their natural technical skills - no re-education necessary.

    So how does it work? Imagine the defence as a W with the centre-backs at the base, DM in the centre, and the FB/WBs on either side. When the ball is gained, all of these advance with the emphasis on maintaining possession as was achieved so well in the first half against West Ham. Ahead of them is Howson in a 'deep playmaker' role linking up with Wes in the 'advanced playmaker' role, both of which are very fluid. The striker is not a 'target man' in the traditional sense, but a deeper pivot around whom the others look for space created by the striker's movement to draw opposing CBs out of position. Wes and Howson are looking to exploit that space by shooting, playing a 1-2 or by passing to one of the wingers cutting inside as the FB/WBs overlap to occupy the opposing FBs. This is designed to confuse and 'overload' over the opposing defence and maximise the chance of scoring.

    When the ball is lost, the two CBs and the DM are in position to counter any advance as the FB/WBs regain their defensive positions and Howson and the wingers fill in alongside the DM to form the two banks of four. When the ball is gained again, the above is repeated but never in the same way given the fluidity of movement AN wants. The key is creating the spaces and then exploiting them. All that isn't easy to pick up and transfer to another club, which is why I think AN will stay and continue building the 'dynasty'. Exciting times, methinks.
     
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  16. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    While I think that's true, I would say we weren't really a mid-Championship side. I of course don't think we can take what Neil has achieved for granted, but I think that some (or perhaps vainly hope...) will see it as "well, Norwich should have been promoted with the squad they've got, so Neil simply achieved what he ought to have done".

    The one thing that we've got going for us is that we're still somewhat under the radar, as is Neil. It sounds ridiculous, but if we'd got the point or three we'd deserved against Palace, two more against Stoke and West Ham apiece, we'd be sitting in third, and then I'd be a lot more worried about losing Neil! As it is, Eddie Howe's flowing locks and Bilic's away wins are getting all the attention, which can be annoying but clubs like Newcastle and Liverpool know how their fans perceive them and when they think they've got a chance for Klopp would they settle for Neil? Not while he keeps us in a steady mid-table position I'd hope they wouldn't...
     
    #96
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  17. Bath-Canary

    Bath-Canary Well-Known Member

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    I think many Liverpool fans think of Rogers as a "small team" manager especially having come from Swansea. I doubt very much they would welcome another. As you say they, optimistically, think that they could get Klopp or Ancelotti they well go for a foreign manager next I imagine probably just not one they want.
     
    #97
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  18. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    It's a bit amazing that if we win tomorrow by 2 goals we'll move above Leicester in the table and quite possibly be back in the top half of the table. A second straight loss could also shake Leicester's confidence a bit. Eight games in is a reasonable point to start to judge how the season is likely to go but I'm sure that if we do win, the pundits will put it down to something else!
     
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  19. Big Russ5

    Big Russ5 Member

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    If they say anything at all!
     
    #99
  20. THURNBY YELLOW

    THURNBY YELLOW Well-Known Member

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    I think that it would be a poor deciison for AN to contemplate moving from CR this season and equally daft for anyone to consider poaching him this early. The secondary would be based on a panic measure and liable to be temporary again, while the first would be one looking at ambition but with little or no real substance. Neither would be shrewd and AN is a bit cleverer than that IMO.
     
    #100
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