Referees

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fatletiss

fatletiss

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
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Northampton
Ok, so I know Tom isn't going to like this so apologies to you, Qwerty and the others who are referees; I know it's a tough job.

However....

I think the standard of referring is getting worse and worse in the most wealthy league in the world. I thought Moss was atrocious today, I really did. I didn't think much to the ref in the City, Arsenal and United games, but I couldn't possibly be seen to moan after defeats. Today I am very happy after a 3-0 win and so I think in a good frame of mind to discuss this. What can be done to improve them? I wonder if part of this is that the players get fitter and fitter, leaving the refs behind in terms of fitness... Just a thought. As for players if any sport or people in any situation in life, making decisions when there is less oxygen available to the brain is hard and I wonder if this is effecting what I believe is a deteriation in the overall standard of referring at the top end of our game.

Do we need to change how the referees come thought the system?

Am I wrong in my thoughts about the standard slipping?
 
Most referees are up to refereeing in the PL. Moss isn't one. Neither is Marriner. Clattenburg on the other hand is a quality referee. I personally think it should be easier to promote and demote referees. A horrific game for a referee should result in an instant demotion. On the other hand, if there is a referee who is really impressing in the Championship they should get a go in the PL. Most refs are super fit - the fitness tests they have to do before each season are no picnics. Clattenburg is a really fit referee - he keeps up with play so well. He just mouths off a bit too much! I'd say the referees who are up to it at the moment are Clattenburg, Dean, Atkinson, Oliver, Foy, Probert (he's been injured lately so he hasn't been reffing for a while), Dowd and Mason. But there is a big difference between Clattenburg, Dean, Oliver and Atkinson (our best referees IMO) and the rest.
 
I don't know how you could raise the standard of one man having to make instant decisions based on what he and his two assistants may or may not see. The fact is, it's impossible to get everything right, so either we continue to put up with it, or we introduce further video evidence. Today's penalty shout, for example, would have been straightforward, the ball went straight out of play, so no need to stop the game. True, the earlier foul on Long by Distin where Moss waved play on would have been more difficult, unless you had some sort of challenge system. All I know is that something has to be done, and soon, or nobody will want to become a referee, such is the low esteem they are held in at the top level of football.
 
When Distin tripped Long, why didn't Moss signal a foul? His assistant waved the flag indicating it was a foul, and it happened just in front of him, so why doesn't he trust his assistant?
 
Tom - Phil Dowd must get a pass for the fitness test then :)

Chilco - good pint about them being held in the lowest esteem and I think a lot of that low esteem comes from within the Premier League, so there's a good place to start working on it. How do we get that view if them improved?
 
ChilcoSaint said:
I don't know how you could raise the standard of one man having to make instant decisions based on what he and his two assistants may or may not see. The fact is, it's impossible to get everything right, so either we continue to put up with it, or we introduce further video evidence. Today's penalty shout, for example, would have been straightforward, the ball went straight out of play, so no need to stop the game. True, the earlier foul on Long by Distin where Moss waved play on would have been more difficult, unless you had some sort of challenge system. All I know is that something has to be done, and soon, or nobody will want to become a referee, such is the low esteem they are held in at the top level of football.
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Well the good news here is that the game is run by a thoroughly dynamic and not at all self-serving body called FIFA. Qualities imbued by their widely respected head, Sepp Blatter. No doubt FIFA are, at this very moment tabling proposals to assist referees through bang up to date technological advances such as the "action replay" first seen on Match Of The Day in 1970.
 
SouthamptonFCroatia said:
When Distin tripped Long, why didn't Moss signal a foul? His assistant waved the flag indicating it was a foul, and it happened just in front of him, so why doesn't he trust his assistant?
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I suspect that the Referee bottled the challenge on Long, if it had been a goal scoring opportunity, which is debatable without seeing the replay, it should have been a red card, that could have ruined and changed the game, so perhaps it's a blessing in disguise. Having done a bit of Refereeing, albeit low level stuff, I can appreciate that you only get one quick chance to make a decision and you have to stick to it once you have called it, rightly or wrongly.
 
Absolutely agree FLT, this was the worst refereeing performance I have seen when we have won.
The non penalty on Long in the first half right I front of where we were sat was unbelievable. Fortunately we managed to score from the penalty
 
Refs are in the wrong place. A decent seat in the Kings and for example, you get a perfect view of all the action. A 5th assistant is needed.
 
tomw23 said:
Most referees are up to refereeing in the PL. Moss isn't one. Neither is Marriner. Clattenburg on the other hand is a quality referee. I personally think it should be easier to promote and demote referees. A horrific game for a referee should result in an instant demotion. On the other hand, if there is a referee who is really impressing in the Championship they should get a go in the PL. Most refs are super fit - the fitness tests they have to do before each season are no picnics. Clattenburg is a really fit referee - he keeps up with play so well. He just mouths off a bit too much! I'd say the referees who are up to it at the moment are Clattenburg, Dean, Atkinson, Oliver, Foy, Probert (he's been injured lately so he hasn't been reffing for a while), Dowd and Mason. But there is a big difference between Clattenburg, Dean, Oliver and Atkinson (our best referees IMO) and the rest.
Click to expand...

I personally think Atkinson is a useless official. Every game I have seen him referee, he has been appalling. Not biased, but just incompetent.

My problem is not that they get things wrong, it is that nothing is ever done about it. We moan about it, managers moan about it and get fined/touchline bans, then it is swept under the carpet. I think if they have been poor in a game, they should miss out for a week, not get relegated down a division: why should the lower leagues have to suffer their incompetence.

I would also like referees to be a bit more open in the media about their decision making. If they get a call wrong, then come out and say "sorry, but from my view I thought the guy got the ball" or whatever. I know it won't change anything, but it would at least give us the impression that they are being scrutinised and can see where they go wrong.

I accept it is a tough job, but at the end of the day, it is the career they chose.

It's a good debate, and it is about time the FA/Referees Association decide to engage in it.
 
Dark Lord SFC said:
Absolutely agree FLT, this was the worst refereeing performance I have seen when we have won.
The non penalty on Long in the first half right I front of where we were sat was unbelievable. Fortunately we managed to score from the penalty
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I know what you meant, but it was a corner! <devil>
 
That foul on Long in the box might be the worst non-call I've had the privilege of witnessing. Curious, though: a number of other sports have gone to a two-referee system on the basis that there's too much going on for a single person to see it all clearly (and linos are too far away or focused on other aspects...or simply get overruled, as Moss demonstrated). Might take a little of the pressure off that one individual, while providing another angle for major decisions.
 
I have never criticised a referee on this forum. As a qualified ref myself, I can often see two sides to a decision. So, even though I might not always agree with it, I can see why it might have been given. BUT, today was a mystery.

It took me most of half time to convince my wife that he wasn't being paid to fix the game in Everton's favour. Maybe he took the break to consider his performance because he did improve somewhat in the second half.
 
I think too many referee's decisions are swayed by the team/player/manager of the side committing the offence.
It's not unusual to see the "big teams", with players/managers that have a fear factor, given free kicks almost on demand.
Until refs stop being in awe of, or scared of, certain clubs/players/managers, not a lot will change, and those the refs perceive as being in that elite group, will continue to benefit from refereeing decisions.

I thought, after the Clattenburg/Lallana incident, last season, including the handball/penalty we never had, that the referee's governing body should keep a spreadsheet, recording decisions made by each ref, for and against every team, in order to highlight patterns.
This could show if certain refs have a penchant for making contentious decisions against or for certain clubs, which could be dealt with, with a quiet word, or by ensuring said refs do not officiate in games where there is a clear pattern of what could be perceived as prejudice.
 
Tucked away in a remote and secret countryside location there is a little known Referees Academy which is referred to as the Second Rate Referees Academy by Ofsted who have placed it in special measures.

It is from this Academy that the Premier League selects the referees for Saints games.

I am surprised that people haven't realised this before.
 
St Godders said:
Tucked away in a remote and secret countryside location there is a little known Referees Academy which is referred to as the Second Rate Referees Academy by Ofsted who have placed it in special measures.

It is from this Academy that the Premier League selects the referees for Saints games.

I am surprised that people haven't realised this before.
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Thanks for pointing this out, there was me thinking they all came from rugby playing public schools..
 
Give Sian Massey a go. She's a good lino so she's bound to be a good ref.

Seriously though, any woman could be a good shout as because of their gender, they have to be the best of the best to get the opportunity to officiate in men's games. Therefore I'd imagine the standard of reffing by female ref's in men's football is very high.
 
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