Red Bull bailing might just be the wake up and shake up to give F1 the shot in the arm that it needs. It needs to be put on the brink to remember who it is and who it represents- and that is what a Red Bull exit will do. Good riddance to them. They should work harder with their current supplier.
I'm no fan of Red Bull (though I find them more likeable with Dan Ricciardo driving for them). However, I feel a thought should go out to the many F1 related employees of the company who may soon be looking for work. Instead of Horner et al moaning about how hard done by they think they are, Red Bull's management should think about the amount of people who's income they hold power over. Secure the team's short term future first and then work your way out of this self created mess.
Remarkable that Horner somehow managed to have worse hair than Newey! As for the article itself... Newey quoted as saying: "We're possibly going to be forced out of Formula One - Mercedes and Ferrari have refused to supply us out of fear" Fixed: "We're possibly going to be forced out of Formula One - Mercedes and Ferrari have refused to supply us out of loathing"
My bold, above. I think Marko and Mouthpiece got too big for Little Jack's boots. Half blinded by arrogance, they appear to have burned their most vital bridge. With nowhere to run, the red bully monstered itself into a corner.
I do have to agree that Red Bull are their own worst enemy, but when/if they leave I worry not only for 100's of employees affected but also that other team may follow, either forced or by choice. The Manor, Lotus & Sauber - whilst supported with works engines - are grossly underfunded and most likely live day to day. F1 is like a stack of cards and can fall very quickly - its not immune to global financial pressure (as we have seen) - and it needs 20+ cars racing.
Haas to come in, would take us to 22 car grid, but should the Bulls take their ball and go home, it'll be an 18 car grid, that would be DIRE! 3 car teams isn't the answer either, 3 Mercs and 3 Ferrari's would lead to (given this years dominance) other teams, more likely than not, coming 7th at best! Not been a fan of RedBull (call me a traditionalist..) but don't want them to leave either.. Ferrari and Merc won't give them an engine, they only really have a few options.. 1 - Cap in hand, tail between their legs and go grovelling back to Renault! 2 - Take a risk with Honda, should McLaren not veto it.. 3 - Take a year out and go develop their own engine along with getting a head start on the new rules for 2017! 4 - Two fingers to F1 and go race in WEC...
As mentioned before, I understand your concerns, Smithers. But that really is my point! Although the prospects are not good for some employees in the short term, the sooner this happens, the better it will be for F1 and all of its employees in the longer term. As you've already observed, the mess is a product of inequality. Previously, just when it looked that F1 might need to take a fresh look at itself to re-evaluate its financial structure, in came Red Bull to save the day and further bolster the inequality masterminded by Ferrari and Bernie! What better compliment to an existing structure than a new pretender trying to out-do the biggest player (and being rewarded for doing so): that which had demanded the original inequality (and been rewarded for doing so)? F1 needs a big kick up the backside. This is another opportunity to set about balancing the books and the sooner that happens, the better it will be in the long term. On the other hand, if F1 remains true to form by falling back upon its long history of intertwined, convoluted and coercive practices, it will once again wave its victory banner as proof of its own integrity, thereby perpetuating the status quo – which exists precisely because of such inequality! This is an opportunity. Bring it on… - - -o0o- - - [Edit: P.S. to any moderator with the power to act upon this request] It would appear this ongoing discussion of Red Bull's predicament has little to do with the last Grand Prix. Would it be possible to put all relevant posts in a new thread under its own title, so that any interested visitors might immediately find the discussion?
I agree that this discussion would be better off with its own easy-to-find thread, Should They Stay or Should They Go, perhaps; and it would be good to hear fresh opinions from others beyond the usual suspects Interestingly, Carlos Sainz would be quite happy to drive with a 2015 spec. Ferrari engine next year and it's almost a done deal for Toro Rosso, apparently. So whither Red Bull Racing?
I've posted this in the 2016 thread but it seems the FIA will not allow 2015 engines next year. http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-units-to-be-same-specification-as-works-team 'Only power units which are identical to the power unit that has been homologated by the FIA in accordance with Appendix 4 of these regulations may be used at an Event during the 2016-2020 Championship seasons,' reads article 23.5 of the 2016 sporting regulations.'
The FIA rejected some applications this year. They are surely going to have to open applications again fairly soon. Whatever happened to that Romanian entrant?
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...the-possible-outcomes-for-f1s-unsettled-team/ James Allen has some interesting thoughts. Of note to me was the fact that the lead time on building certain parts of a Ferrari engine for pre-season is already getting tight. Also, Red Bull face a $500m fine if they pull the team out completely, but someone like Horner running the team a la Ross Brawn is plausible. A Red Bull racing series with equal cars would be an interesting proposition.
Customer engines should absolutely be the same as the manufacturer otherwise you have two-tier racing fixed by works teams. Why should teams such as Williams pay and settle for a sub-par engine from a team with twice their budget? However, as an aside, all this cobblers with homogolation et Al- shouldn't we do away with it and develop the **** out of these engines for on the limit fastest in the world racing? At the moment F1 is so commercial that it is actually not much of a sport- it's more like a display procession. Novelty photos and shiny bright lights, but not a lot of raw substance.
I don't think spec series really appeal to motorsport's core fanbase. It would cost Red Bull billions and they'd probably receive less publicity than they currently do from F1.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121340 "Red Bull's future in Formula 1 is now "sorted" according to Bernie Ecclestone, who is adamant the company will not be withdrawing at the end of the 2015 season. Autosport understands Red Bull reopened talks with Renault over the Russian Grand Prix weekend, following what appeared to be a terminal breakdown in its relationship with the French manufacturer during a second tough season for the partnership. Ecclestone admits he felt the possibility of Red Bull leaving was legitimate, but he believes the matter has now been resolved."
Not sure how Upton date that is Eddie, it will be interesting to see what comments we get from the meeting. Meanwhile
I wonder if they could do something like any team (not PU manufacturer) who homologates their PU in Feb has 100kg of fuel for the race and those who choose to in season develop can only use 90kg of fuel per race and remove max fuel flow for both?
Supposedly the Illien engine could have been brought up to race capability this year. I've suspected all along that what Redbull really want is a way to get the development of that and their own hybrid elements funded. VW could have been a way to do that, but I don't think there's any chance of that any more. The trouble with a pu dominant formula is that the power is concentrated into the hands of the few engine manufacturers. The independent engine builders can't afford to develop a competitive equivalent, so the sport can't rely on the likes of cosworth as it did in the past to solve the problem. We've had 2 years of pretty dull F1, the sport is in danger of losing two teams and a sponsor who have taken the sport in new directions and whilst it's not a popular opinion to say so, it's seems to me that Bernie was right about these engines all along.
Blue part: I think if VW were committing cash and their brand to the sport they'd want to be developing the engine themselves. They have far more pedigree in this area than Red Bull do and I don't think they'd be comfortable outsourcing any engine development to a drinks company, no matter how sophisticated their engineers and facilities are. Green part: I don't think the engines themselves are the problem, just as usual the way they've been implemented has been a total disaster. The FIA these days come up with two types of idea; terrible ones, and good ones executed terribly. The hybrid engines are in the latter category. The fuel flow restrictions have made them sound like ****, and they've homologated in an enormous power advantage for one team. Even in the V8 era I was strongly against the engine freeze because I feel it's wrong to lock in a performance advantage/disadvantage for multiple seasons. This is even more relevant in the current era where the power unit is such a massive performance differentiator. It was apparent very early one last year that Mercedes was a cut above the rest, even before the cars hit the test track for the first time you could see the Mercedes-powered cars were much more tightly packaged and had lower cooling requirements. It became apparent soon after that they were more powerful, reliable and fuel efficient than anything else as well. Steps should've been taken immediately to free up development, if not for last year then for this season and next. As it is the regulations are still to restrictive and we're probably looking at a third consecutive season of Mercedes dominance.
