Red Bull Experiment

[Doc]

I have a feeling the Red Bull ways of working dont actually work in the Premier League. 2018 saw Southampton bring in unknown Austrian coach Ralf Hasenuttl, a product of the Red Bull coaching school. He managed to keep the Saints in the Premier League in that first season and the following season did really well finishing 11th. The season after his team had a 9-0 battering and struggled all season as it seemed every other coach new how to counter his style of play. There were calls for bis head and he was on thin ice and only just managed to keep Southampton in the Premier League. It seemed that the board had serious words with Ralf and wanted a new direction, so he kept his job by adopting a new tactical play book. Southampton brought in a new Director of Football and Sporting Director from Man City. They also brought in a few Man City academy graduates so its a slow process but gradually the style of play has evolved and some of the young kids are starting to show their class. Fans seem much happier this season and are confident of at least mid- table.

Leeds under Jesse Marsch were not a nice watch last season, but when Marsch landed the club was in trouble and he had 12 games to save us from relegation. Skin of his teeth he managed it but the football was dire. Leeds fans were expecting that a full pre-season and new players who had played for Marsch would show the benefit of the Marsch Red Bull high press. Fans accepted that it would be a good watch when it all clicked and some promising results at the start of the season had fans confident after the problems of last season. A great win against Chelsea had everyone sitting up taking notice, everything clicked that game and in fairness Chelsea were a shadow of what Tuchel wanted and he was subsequently sacked. Since then we have seen Leeds put on 1 decent first half and a very good second half against Arsenal, but Leeds needed a decent 90 minutes. All we seem to get now is a decent first 20 minutes and then collapse. Everyone knows how to counter our tactics. The football is dire and we know we are again in trouble.

The Red Bull project doesnt work in the prem and teams who press properly do so in organised ways. The High Press of Red Bull has been modified for it to work. Klopp brought his brand of Red Bull heavy metal football from Germany but modified it, Pep modified his Bielsa High Press game over a number of years.

rH has modified his thinking but will it be too late to save his job? Will Marsch be able to change his Red Bull tactics into something resembling winning football? The Man who designed Red Bull Gagenpresse took over at Man Utd last season and he watched his puny overpaid players refuse to press and ghe team were garbage. He lost his job and he is known as the godfather of pressing and he was the guy who taught Klopp, but Klopp modernised Ralf Ragnik couldnt.

Is Red Bull tactics any good in the Prem?

 

[ristac]

It probably works with the exact right blend and quality of player. This is the problem with too many of todays coaches, they feel you can go into any club and make it work.

Take Ronaldo, wind the clock back 10 years when he was at his best, he is never going to press from the front.

Bielsas tactics were immense for the Championship but he was working with hungry players looking to improve. They’d absorb everything he told them because they wanted it and they wanted to be in the prem.

Bielsas downfall was his blind loyalty to those that got us up and his inability to handle characters or the non humble. Maybe his experience told him the non humble are not willing to put the effort in he demanded.

Jesse is a text book coach, he’s studied the book back to front, he could recite it word for word, throw in that American way that’s it’s all about self belief and when he’s followed the instructions and it’s not working he’s clueless.

This was my huge question last season when many pointed out we need to give him time and allow him to “bring in his players”. Bielsa inherited a squad we considered below average and made them the best in the championship in one preseason.

Why was Jesse not good enough in his nearly half a season to get his methods across? Alarm bells were ringing for me straightaway, yes I could see sense in what people were saying, give him a transfer window, bring in players who know his style but why isn’t he good enough to work with what he has.

Sorry long winded answer to yes it can work but a great coach and disciplined players will always outsmart it.

 

[blonogasoven]

Morning all.
I’d never really considered a team having a system until Bielsa. I may be missing something but if you do the same thing every time then the opposition will learn how to beat you. What system do Brighton, Newcastle, Spurs, Bournemouth, Fulham or many other teams play?
The players are looking as frustrated now as they did at the end of the Bielsa time.
Is it possible to just let them play football?

 

[Doc]

Morning all.
I’d never really considered a team having a system until Bielsa. I may be missing something but if you do the same thing every time then the opposition will learn how to beat you. What system do Brighton, Newcastle, Spurs, Bournemouth, Fulham or many other teams play?
The players are looking as frustrated now as they did at the end of the Bielsa time.
Is it possible to just let them play football?

A team needs a plan and the saying is true that theres no me in team. Just allowing ghem to play would mean 11 individuals doing their own thing. Teams like Athletico Madrid use a low block system, Fulham press but not a high press I had never heard the term half winger before Marsch turned up, and he says he uses half wingers not wingers even gnough Leeds have loads of wingers. He mentioned Aaronson and Rodrigo as half wingers yet we see them more as playing at 10. Not using ghe wings as an outlet congests play and means mistakes via bad passes and the ball turned over too much (in our case)

 

[BillysStatue]

It probably works with the exact right blend and quality of player. This is the problem with too many of todays coaches, they feel you can go into any club and make it work.

Take Ronaldo, wind the clock back 10 years when he was at his best, he is never going to press from the front.

Bielsas tactics were immense for the Championship but he was working with hungry players looking to improve. They’d absorb everything they told them because they wanted it and they wanted to be in the prem.

Bielsas downfall was his blind loyalty to those that got us up and his inability to handle characters or the non humble. Maybe his experience told him the non humble are not willing to put the effort in he demanded.

Jesse is a text book coach, he’s studied the book back to front, he could recite it word for word, throw in that American way that’s it’s all about self belief and when he’s followed the instructions and it’s not working his clueless.

This was my huge question last season when many pointed out we need to give him time and allow him to “bring in his players”. Bielsa inherited a squad we considered below average and made them the best in the championship in one preseason.

Why was Jesse not good enough in his nearly half a season to get his methods across? Alarm bells were ringing for me straightaway, yes I could see sense in what people were saying, give him a transfer window, bring in players who know his style but why isn’t he good enough to work with what he has.

Sorry long winded answer to yes it can work but a great coach and disciplined players will always outsmart it.

Bielsa's downfall was injuries, nothing else ... he took Leeds to 9th in the Prem playing outstanding football and running teams ragged

But Bielsa Ball, just like Pep Ball and Klopp Ball, needs a team of capable players who understand what is needed and who can do it at pace for 90 minutes ... it's not going to work at Maine Road against a flying Citeh with Shackleton at right back, Ayling at centre back and Roberts at 10 with James as the 9 ... that's what hurt Bielsa, losing his best players for a long period of time ... it was a miracle he got us to 21 points with all the injuries

Marsch, however, just seems lost

 

[Whitejock]

Bielsa's downfall was injuries, nothing else ... he took Leeds to 9th in the Prem playing outstanding football and running teams ragged

But Bielsa Ball, just like Pep Ball and Klopp Ball, needs a team of capable players who understand what is needed and who can do it at pace for 90 minutes ... it's not going to work at Maine Road against a flying Citeh with Shackleton at right back, Ayling at centre back and Roberts at 10 with James as the 9 ... that's what hurt Bielsa, losing his best players for a long period of time ... it was a miracle he got us to 21 points with all the injuries

Marsch, however, just seems lost

Remember how Bielsa 'over-trained' his players?
Remember how Marsch complained about it when he arrived?
Ever wondered why we tire in the second half, even with 5 subs?

I wonder what the players' fitness stats are this season compared to previous seasons. I think we'd find a gulf in comparative levels of fitness - and it shows!