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Ramsey on Shawcross

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by The Bonstar Wandit, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you should volunteer then, and give me a rest. At that age group, it isn't a job.
     
    #41
  2. The Magic Man

    The Magic Man Well-Known Member

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    NO, it can't.

    Show me in the rules where it says that, as I have shown you where it says that it can not be with excessive force.
     
    #42
  3. winifred122

    winifred122 Well-Known Member

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    What a load of b****Ks - you ruin any argument you have with a ridiculous linelike that.
     
    #43
  4. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    Just to help Magic Man - here is the quote from the FIFA interpretations of the rules on the subject.

    “Using excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the necessary
    use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent.

    • A player who uses excessive force must be sent off
     
    #44
  5. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    I've helped out the younger age groups in the past at clubs I've been at and really enjoyed it. If I wasn't reasonably academic it's something I'd probably have pursued. Maybe I was lucky but there was very little rough stuff in the groups I oversaw and certainly not a plethora of elbowing, intentional leg-breaking etc. Certainly that's out of order but it would take a lot away from the game if the physical side was completely abolished and make it far less of a spectacle if we all played the Barcelona/Arsenal way.
     
    #45
  6. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    It's a very empty statement from Fifa though. What is excessive? Any slide tackle can endanger an opponent. Challenging for a header with someone can hurt them. I really don't see what's wrong with a tackle that cleanly takes ball first and then man. I don't want a return to grassless pitches and players kicking lumps out of each other but a good tackle is as beautiful a skill as a good pass.
     
    #46
  7. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    Why? What's wrong with contact sport being a means of toughening kids up. It's a tough world out there and football, as with other sports, teaches valuable life lessons.
     
    #47
  8. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    Yours is a common mistake and why we face the problems we do. You really have to understand that you don't have any case and are completely wrong. It isn't an opinion thing. I've got coaching and refereeing qualifications and the rules are very clearly written to stop players making tackles with a force or a technique that may (potentially) cause injury.

    I totally understand that you don't like watching or playing a game played under those rules (although I disagree).

    But that isn't the argument that we are having. We play football under the FIFA rules, and that is the way they are written, that is how they are meant to be interpreted, and that is in the spirit FIFA want them to be used.

    It doesn't matter if you, Andy Gray, or even the head of the FA, thinks it is a good idea. Those are the rules and we have to stick to them, if we want to call the game we play football.

    Edit:

    So a slide tackle cannot be made (with force) at a player, or too close to a player. If the ball is a sufficient distance ahead of a player then the tackle can be made, with force, because it is not "in danger of injuring".

    A slide tackle can also be made parallel to the run of a player, or sufficiently in front of a player, with the tackler then kicking the ball away as they slide. This is because the force of the lunge is not being used to strike at the ball and therefore the force used in the tackle is not excessive.

    Any lunge made directly at a player is going to be looked at very closely by any referee.
     
    #48
  9. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    But what is excessive force? Force that can potentially endanger an opponent? Surely any tackle can do that. Unless they literally ban the slide tackle I don't see how that rule can ever really be enforced.
     
    #49
  10. Drogs

    Drogs Well-Known Member

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    Watford, you are aware which set of fans you're talking to? Arsenal fans want football to basically be a non contact sport.
     
    #50

  11. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    Because if the part of the tackle that takes the man's legs, puts him out of the sport for a year, it isn't good for football. There isn't a soul in the world (I hope) that goes to a game to see Shawcross blundering into tackles. There are millions that will pay to see Messi play.
     
    #51
  12. Mantis

    Mantis Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the words "football" and "non-contact sport" really can be separated. I'm all for clean tackles and a physical side to football but some players make it their responsibility to kick lumps out of others because they cannot compete technically.
     
    #52
  13. Drogs

    Drogs Well-Known Member

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    Well the game is slowly becoming like netball, it's hard for referees to determine a clean tackle and a dirty one with only one view of it. What Shawcross did was pure accident, some Arsenal fans make out like he tried to murder Ramsey and that's whether you like Stoke's style of play or hate it.
     
    #53
  14. goonercymraeg

    goonercymraeg Amnesia
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    **** off drogs you plastic armchair fan chav **** <grr>
     
    #54
  15. Drogs

    Drogs Well-Known Member

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    **** you cym, I ain't none of those things except a **** <whistle>
     
    #55
  16. goonercymraeg

    goonercymraeg Amnesia
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    what part of **** off don't you understand <grr>
     
    #56
  17. Mantis

    Mantis Well-Known Member

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    I find floor rolling, card waving and theatrics to be just as damaging as Stoke's style of play. To their credit though, I think they have become better at playing "football".
     
    #57
  18. goonercymraeg

    goonercymraeg Amnesia
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    You can add the time wasting and towel nonsense to Stoke's game
     
    #58
  19. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    Of course it's not good for football but it would be even worse for tackling to be outlawed. The very small percentage of the good tackles that cause a serious injury are a necessary price to pay to keep football the game it is. The loudest cheer other than a goal being scored at a match in this country is probably from a well won 50:50, which maybe doesn't suit certain agendas but it's what people want. It doesn't mean I'm condoning awful tackles, but there's a place in the game for wanting the ball more and physically imposing yourself on a match.
     
    #59
  20. Master Yoda

    Master Yoda Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with a good honest tackle.

    There's a difference between Shawcross and the likes of Rooney or Keane, who lose it and actively try to hurt people.
     
    #60

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