I've always had a small interest in UK racing, well as far back as the mid sixties. I knew next to nothing about the racing other the major events, Derby, Grand National and the like. That interest was fed by the the Australian riders who for years, seemed to make England home. But it wasn't until about fours ago that I started to take a real interest. I stumbled across BBC606 and that was it mate. Hooked ever since. Racing UK is unlike anything we have over here.
Cyclonic, what tremendous riders those Aussies were! I became hooked on racing from as early as I can remember. I have to blame my old man- he spent 16 years in the 7th Hussars and lived and breathed horses. When I was young, he used to keep me up at night, telling me horse racing tales, so I didn't have much choice really. From 9 or 10 years old, my favourite jockey/trainer combination was Scobie Breasley/Gordon Richards, but for me it was all about Scobie really. I have hundreds of mental pictures of races he won. He was unbelievable at the tapes in sprints and excelled on two year olds. He had fantastic hands and was an unbelievable judge of pace. I cursed recently when I learned he was offered the Noel Murless retainer before Lester Piggott, but turned it down in favour of Richards. What a mistake! Though I admire his loyalty. I know you feel George Moore was much better, but I can't agree there. I know Moore was tremendous but, from the jockeys I saw, I can only put Lester Piggott in front of Scobie- and not by much. I think Lester agreed with me on Scobie's ability- from what I once read.
They were the golden days Tam. Great riders, even greater horses. It just seems to me that these people were legends in their own life time. I don't think that applies as much today. I remember Lester coming to Australia to ride in a race called the International in the late 60s. He was aboard a favourite son of Queensland racing, a horse called Prunda. He won the event in 68 and backed up the following year, and was ridden by the Long Fella on both occasions. I recall the great horse just getting to the line in one of those wins, (maybe the second) and was out on his feet at the furlong. Lester was into big time with the whip. The crowd were amazed at how much courage the horse displayed in managing to hang on. But they were also hugely angered at the flogging the horse had taken. So much so, that a reporter went around to the stables the next morning to take a look at the animal. There wasn't a mark on him. Lester had given his boot a belting, scaring Prunda as he pushed and shoved the tired horse to the line. Brilliant rider.
Yeah, Cyclonic, Lester was fantastic. Most UK fans would probably vote for his Derby winning ride on Roberto as his piece de resistance and, yes, maybe no other jockey would have won on him. Yet for me, his best ride was on Royal Avenue at Newbury- when he beat Jimmy Lindley on the previous 2000 Guineas winner, Only For Life. He absolutely stole a race he should never have won- by waiting in front and then shooting Royal Avenue clear- and catching Lindley napping! Fantastic ride! Ah well, I must go and get dressed for golf. Speak to you later. All the best. You're a goodun.
Isn't it great being able to chat to folk with common interests all round the globe. Sometimes you get the feeling you know each other more than your neighbours. I vividly remember walking along Brighton sea front as a kid with my parents. My dad would buy the News Chronicle and I would quickly go to the racing page and under the meetings there used to be Training tips. I always looked to see what was tipped up from the Ogbourne stable and have a small bet on. Amazing how often they won. It was there once when we got talking to a chap in a restaurant on the sea front and he had inside info about a horse called Alcide. Told us about the nasty incident that prevented him from running in the Derby and that he was now sound and would win the Great Voltigeur Stakes before winning the St Leger. He duly obliged romping away with both. A terrific horse we don't hear much about. By all accounts he would have trotted up in the Epsom Derby had he been able to run. Most of his progeny went to Australia. So Cyc, do you remember any of his progeny? Approval, Alderney, Alfonso, Atilla, Colours Flying, Flagon, Gatekeeper, Mironton, Oncidium, Persian Garden II and Swallowtail II
Oddy...a frank concise reply! Sounds a great read...PG Wodehouse didn't exactly cover himself in glory with the old Nazi's either.
Alcide's family have had a huge impact upon australian racing Ron. His son Oncidium produced Leilani and Dayana, both were the Australian Horse of the Year. They were wonderful horses. Dayana was probably the better of the two, but Lailani being a filly, won a lot of hearts with her courage. She won a Caulfield Cup, AJC Oaks, Toorak Handicap, LKS Mackinnon Stks, St. George Stakes, Turnbull Stakes and CF Orr Stakes. Atilla also got his fair share of winners. He got a special one in Alti Khan, a bold striding middle distance animal. Dayana was a crack three year old. He won the VRC, AJC, and WATC Derbys. He also won the Perth Cup. P.S. On having a look into some of the breeding, I came across a couple of amazing stats. Both Dayana and Leilani were both trained by J.B. Cummings, who holds the record of most G1 wins in a year, at 20. He has also trained 9 Australian Horses of the Year.
They made a film of that didn’t they? Charlton Heston, Sophia Loren, Herbert Lom. They got the Moors from Yorkshire mixed up with the Moors from Africa.
Ron, I particularly remember George Todd's Oncidium. He ran away with the Lingfield Derby Trial in 1964, and the concensus was that he would have won the Derby on that particular day. However, he was an unbelievably hard puller and wouldn't settle- and that's just what happened in the Derby itself. In any case, Scobie Breasley chose not to ride him at Epsom and ended up victorious on Santa Claus. Nonetheless Scobie did ride him later in the Hardwicke Stakes at Ascot and, in a desperate finish, he lost to Staff Ingham's Soderini (Geoff Lewis, I think). Scobie also rode him against Fighting Charlie in the Ascot Gold Cup, but it was the worst race I ever saw Scobie ride. Oncidium pulled for his head for about 12 furlongs and then ran out of steam. Scobie should have given him his head- the horse just pulled too hard to be covered up.
Found some nice stuff on Alcide. Seems that in the fifties, racing was a pretty filthy game. In 1958 Alcide was the recipient of so much support, that it's believed that someone snuck into his stable a gave him a hiding, breaking a rib, which of course put him out of the Derby.
I don't know why racing at the time was dirty Ron. I don't think it was just endemic to the UK though. We had a lot of it ourselves. In an article I read on UK racing, it said that doping and nobbling was a big problem. It would probably make a great article in itself mate. Maybe Tam could do one on it.
Cyclonic, good morning down there in Gabba country! Although I know quite a bit about 'dopes,' I don't know much about doping horses.It would take quite a bit of research. The subject brings back memories of when I was 'got at' myself- on two occasions at parties. The first time, a practical joker(a friend) laced my pint of beer with half a pint of gin, and then someone else did the same with rum at another party. By God, was I paralytic- and I've never touched rum since! (I can still smell it now). On one occasion, I had this gorgeous bird lined up, but someone else did me the honours. Not to be recommended! The swines could have poisoned my liver and done me in!
Never was much of a drinker Tam, more of a weed man in my salad days. And mushrooms, man they could put you away. we have mushies called Goldies out here, that are the size if dinner plates and taste like crap. They were inedible, so we used to stew 'em and use the "filthy brown water" to make coffee. Ya' got ya' life back about 8 to 10 hours later. The things you do when ya' young and stupid. How did you go yesterday, chasing that little white ball?
Mushrooms?? I shove 'em onto my wife's plate if I don't know they're coming with a meal. I can't understand how people get turned on by those little earthy umbrellas! They remind me of an hobgoblin's garden - or something Merlin would substitute for bromide. As for golf, as I said to my partner yesterday, why I persist in trying to knock the dimples off a silly little ball I'll never know! I must be a masochist at heart! Seriously, I love the fresh air and social 'crack.' Then the average golf I play becomes incidental. In some ways, retirement's not easy, and you have to find outlets for yourself, like sport or one finger typing on not 606!
I sometimes use two fingers- when I feel ambitious! PS. I know a lot of blokes who use three fingers, but not for typing!!
Sorry to be pedantic but I'd say the list you have of Alcide's best produce missed two of his best. I'd say his best produce was Remand. You don't get rated 1lb below Vaguely Noble as a 2yo without being pretty good. That his next two seasons were destroyed by the virus was a disaster but he still won the Chester Vase (giving weight to Connaught), Westbury Stakes (beating Ribero) and Cumberland Lodge from only 6 runs, as well as finishing 4th in the Derby when a sick horse (probably never recovered from it). The other horse who did have an effect down under was Sea Anchor who won the King Edward vII Stakes and was a a good stayer as a 4yo winning the Goodwood and Doncaster Cups amongst other races. He was unfortunate to come up against Sagaro in the Ascot Gold Cup. I'd say he was a better horse than Oncidium but some may not agree and it doesn't really matter. In reality Alcide was a disappointing sire. He was the type of horse I loved.
