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Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe – 2 October 2016, Chantilly

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by QuarterMoonII, May 17, 2016.

  1. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    He missed it through injury last year, the plan since has been to come back this year.

    “It’s an important meeting watched by the world and the prize is big,” said Shunsuke Yoshida, representative of owners Sunday Racing Co Ltd.

    “I had requested this challenge to the trainer Noriyuki Hori, if his condition had been fine. The next target after returning to Japan is not fixed but I would like to make the Arc.”
     
    #21
  2. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    Duramente will lead a Japanese team of 10 strong - the largest group to make the trip from the nation - into Dubai World Cup Day this weekend, when the JRA’s prized 4-year-old colt will make his highly anticipated overseas debut in the Dubai Sheema Classic.

    Duramente, named the JRA’s top 3-year-old colt last season after capturing both the Tokyo Yushun (Japanese Derby)and Satsuki Sho (Japanese 2000 Guineas), heads to the United Arab Emirates a proud racehorse, having been ranked joint No. 1 in the world earlier this month alongside California Chrome and Postponed, who he will face in the Sheema Classic.

    Born of the JRA’s highest pedigree – by King Kamehameha out of Admire Groove, two modern racing legends in Japan – Duramente is 5-of-7 for his burgeoning career, not having finished under second. The Noriyuki Hori-trained horse is coming off a narrow win in the Nakayama Kinen on Feb. 28 – his first start since winning the Derby because he broke both front legs afterward.

    Katsumi Yoshida, chief of Duramente’s breeding farm Northern Farm, is confident of victory in the Sheema Classic on Saturday at Meydan Racecourse and has eyes on a bigger prize this fall – the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe, which remains the holy grail to the Japanese racing community.

    “I believe Japanese racehorses are the strongest in the world at 2,400 meters and I expect us to win as long as we are going,” Yoshida said. “The Nakayama Kinen was his first race in nine months so we wanted to make sure there was no recoil from it before we decided and announced anything.

    “He seems to be in good shape, and we anticipate he will be in even better shape this time around now that he’s shaken off the rust. At the party after we won the Derby, everyone was talking about winning the Arc, not the Triple Crown. I hope we can win here and raise his value as an international stud – and then off to the Arc in the fall.”

    Duramente will continue to be in the big-race hands of Mirco Demuro, who is currently the second leading jockey in the JRA behind Christophe Lemaire, the other foreigner to have a full-time riding license in Japan. Demuro – who brought Japan its first Dubai World Cup glory five years ago aboard Victoire Pisa– is just as confident as Yoshida about Duramente, going as far as to say he is the most talented racehorse the Italian has ever ridden.

    “He’s the strongest horse I ever rode in my career,” Demuro said. “It will be his first race in the evening and the field will be tough, but they're about the only things I'm worried about. He will be jumping from 1,800 meters to 2,400 meters but he will be fine. The course at Dubai is flat and there's a lot of room on the turns. The straight is long so it will be an easy journey. Postponed won the (King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes) and he also won his most recent race. He's good but so is Duramente – and I'm excited. I want to win in Dubai again on a Japanese horse.”
     
    #22
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  3. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Postponed has run 6 times at 12f and has won 5, ranging from good to v soft. The one he lost was when beaten decisively by Snow Sky on good to firm. Might be worth remembering if the ground is on the fast side.
     
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  4. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    I find Postponed really difficult to back in that he has super close form with Eagle Top (hammered in the 2015 Arc) but also quite hard to knock in that he looks a massively improved horse.

    With no 3 year old as yet looking special though, I do see why he is in many lists right now.
     
    #24
  5. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor Staff Member

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    Get ready if they send this lad over

     
    #25
  6. bayernkenny

    bayernkenny Well-Known Member

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    No 'Arc' bid according to trainer. Similiar to 'Just A Way' in 2014 in that 8 to 10 furlongs would appear to be optimum.
     
    #26

  7. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Clearly the bookmakers have decided that there are enough mugs around to pull a fast one:

    New Arc favourite A Shin Hikari – 10/1 with Boylesports but 7/1 elsewhere. As he is not currently entered, will the Prix d’Ispahan winner’s owners shell out €120,000 to go to Chantilly?

    The son of Deep Impact is next intended to appear at Royal Ascot, for which he is top-priced 5/2 favourite for the Prince Of Wales’ Stakes, after which the trainer states that he is going home because he is not a mile-and-a-half horse.
     
    #27
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  8. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    The Oaks result did not do a whole deal for the Arc betting.

    Minding has taken over at the head of affairs with most bookies at around 7/1 or 8/1 although 10/1 is available in a couple of places. A Shin Hikari is still up there despite the trainer stating that he will be back home in Japan.

    None of the other fillies that ran on Friday can be found anywhere in the betting.

    The obvious new entry into the market happened last week when Japanese Derby winner Makahiki was added at 16/1.

    By 5pm on Saturday, after the Coronation Cup and The Derby, this will all have changed again as Postponed or The Derby winner could be heading the market depending on how well they win.
     
    #28
  9. beeforsalmon

    beeforsalmon Well-Known Member

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    Well, apart from produce the market leader?!
     
    #29
  10. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    She holds an entry, she won a Classic over the race distance, so her odds (16/1 last week) were quite naturally going to contract; however, she is not 3/1 favourite like Treve was last year, which means that the bookies were not knocked over in the rush to get on post race.

    If Architecture had won, she would not be heading the market as she is not entered.
     
    #30
  11. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor Staff Member

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    I'm surprised Minding hasn't gone shorter than that, she clearly gets the trip and has gears to burn. Looks tailor made for Chantilly and will handle pretty much any ground.I'd want to be with her, especially given how the race conditions favour 3YO fillies.
     
    #31
  12. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Have to say, Oddy, that I was tempted by the 16/1 but I am not sure that she wants it really soft. She was beaten in the Irish 1000 by a proper mudlark and there are usually a couple of them in the Arc.

    As far as the three-year-old fillies, I think I would be more tempted by So Mi Dar (20/1) once we get definitive word about her actually getting back on track. Also, we will know what three-year-old fillies the French have after the Prix de Diane in a couple of weeks. I like La Cressonniere but I have my doubts about her staying.
     
    #32
  13. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor Staff Member

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    I'll have to re-watch the Irish 1000, at the time I thought there was a sniff of over-confidence in the way Ryan Moore rode her and maybe left her a little too much to do at the business end of the race against a very talented filly. I'd fancy her to turn that around.

    Edit: Hard to quantify what the knock on the head did to her chances at the Curragh too.
     
    #33
  14. beeforsalmon

    beeforsalmon Well-Known Member

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    Going to scratch Found out now I have think. Keeps just finding one too good. Last year was her chance, if she'd have got a run it could have been her year.
     
    #34
  15. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    After the Coronation Cup, there seems to be mixed opinions amongst the bookies:

    Postponed can still be had at 13/2 in a couple of places (or 8/1 at Bet Victor if that has been updated) but is as short as 4/1; generally 5/1.

    Found can be had at 20/1 but is as low as 10/1 with Betfair.

    I cannot say that I am tempted by either. Postponed will almost certainly not have a pacemaker at Chantilly and if he gets too keen is a French-run race his chance will be gone long before the distance. I will be annoyed if he wins because I had 20/1 ante post last year before the idiot owner took him away from Cumani.
     
    #35
  16. beeforsalmon

    beeforsalmon Well-Known Member

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    Oaks winner > Derby 1,2,3
     
    #36
  17. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Interesting bookie reaction (best prices) to The Derby:

    6/1 Postponed
    10/1 Harzand, Minding
    14/1 A Shin Hikari, New Bay
    16/1 Makahiki, Ulysses, The Gurkha
    20/1 US Army Ranger, Found, So Mi Dar, Fascinating Rock, Dariyan, Duramente

    Seems they were more impressed by Postponed.
     
    #37
  18. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Looks like the 10/1 was decent value after his easy win yesterday but wouldn't back him at today's prices, given what has happened since. His run yesterday didn't tell us much, other than he can produce a strong finish in a slowly run race. We still don't know how he would handle a fast surface. The fact that Harzand won the Derby in 3 secs faster than Postponed, carrying the same weight, is interesting.

    Looks like we have 4 really live contenders for the Arc in Postponed, Harzand, Mind and So Mi Dar
     
    #38
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  19. beeforsalmon

    beeforsalmon Well-Known Member

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    Postponed would have to give Minding, and the other 3 yo fillies, 11lb. That's a pretty daunting task and history shows the race favours 3 year olds.
     
    #39
  20. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Agreed. Right now I would be looking at Minding or So Mi Dar.

    My thinking (currently) is that Minding will switch to ten furlongs, which would make her a Prix de l’Opera certainty; but as soon as So Mi Dar is back on track I will be interested in the current 20/1 for a lightly-raced three year old filly in a year when the home team may not have a lot.
     
    #40

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