I'm not taking this Robbie. I'm generally optimistic but I don't mind being critical when called for. In this case Heise did "lumber" back when he could well have been in the mix earlier to help prevent that goal. A big part of why we're in the PL is our "don't quit" attitude on offense and defense. I'll just bet you the coaching staff had some words about that for PH after the game.
I'm in the middle on this one and will need to see that particular incident. I remember being annoyed when players like Redmond and Fer used to walk back when the ball was lost. It may be that Heise thought he was too far behind to catch up with the attacking players. If not, I'm sure he'll hear about it from DF. At the same time, Heise has shown many positive attributes in pre-season, including his crossing skills which look to me to be better than Lewis'. Lewis will certainly start at Anfield, but it's good that he has competition now, as do all our players.
Highlights don't show Heise in great light for the third, but it looks like he's trying hard for the fourth.
Agree with your conclusions DH. CS is right about about the third goal, but not about Heise's pace, which is obvious on the fourth goal as he gained ground on the very pacy scorer (perhaps he caught a rocket from DF from across the pitch and responded). He does look like he's capable of providing real competition for Lewis this season, which can only be a good thing.
My point was simply that criticism based on that one incident, implying that Heise revealed some major shortcoming reflecting badly on his overall attitude and suitability, is simply not justified. Why don't we start from the fact that Webber and Farke identified him as a good fit to replace Husband as first choice back up to Lewis? That should be seen as telling us more about his attitude and suitability than any hastily drawn inference from a single incident in a pre-season game. Was Roberts written off after his defensive no-show in an earlier match which led to an even more avoidable goal against?
I pointed out a single play and didn't use it to generalize about Heise's overall attitude. Maybe my words sounded harsh. If so, then that's on me. But, I stand by my criticism that on that play, if PH had hustled back, he may well have prevented Ata's 3rd. Let up just once against a team like Atalanta and they can and will take advantage. I happen to have high hopes for Heise. As for Robert's, he, himself, spoke after the game about his need to be better on defense. No doubt after a talk from DF.
I apologise if I misread your intention CS; I offer this quote in mitigation: "A big part of why we're in the PL is our "don't quit" attitude on offense and defense". Also I don't think it fair to pick out Heise as though others on the field at the time were not equally guilty. Immediately following the interception of Heise's attempted pass to Idah (where, incidentally, were the other midfielders offering themselves for the ball, or the RCB who should have been further over behind Heise for the safe pass back?), Atalanta have a three on three against Godfrey, Klose and the hastily retreating McLean. A few seconds later it was four on three with Srbeny the only additional yellow shirt to show. Where was Aarons? Where was Vrancic? The truth is, as I said in an earlier post, all the discipline and structure that underpinned the campaign last season had been forgotten, and caution thrown to the winds. Heise was just an easy target in a thoroughly abject final quarter performance by the entire back line and midfield.
Fair enough, Robbie. Thank you. I watch these games on my pc so my view is limited to what the ball-watching camera shows. I can't match your (or anyone else's on here) understanding of formations and tactics; though, at times, I'll give my profound opinion, anyway. I think I have a pretty good eye for talent and effort whatever the sport and one thing that torques me off is when a player doesn't give their all. I can forgive mistakes, though. I said TK made a "crazy pass" when he kicked the ball in the air into his own box. Watching the replay, Klose was off-balance and falling slightly backwards when he kicked it resulting in a poor, weak pass. A pre-season error. No biggie. Pre-season.
And, despite what some fans on social media may think, these pre-season games are designed to iron out and eradicate (as much as possible) mistakes of this type ready for when we're playing for actual points. As such, despite what the NCFC facebook page may suggest, the scoreline is irrelevant, it's the tweaking of formations, selecting one's best XI and getting some miles into those legs that's important...until this time next week.
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you meant when you said, "He's supposed to have some pace." I took that as doubting his pace, which he certainly showed in making up ground on the super quick scorer on the fourth goal. I'm sure DF will work hard on maintaining the 'never give up' attitude in this squad and Heise will have to take that on if he is to challenge Lewis. Like Byram I see him as another option rather than a back-up and that's something that runs through this whole squad - no squad players, just other options with different skill sets.
There's also the fact that the concentration and intensity is never the same in pre-season friendlies. Errors like those of Heise and Klose can actually be a good thing, allowing the coaches and players to make sure the same thing doesn't happen in the games that count.
