Poppies and remembrance.

Over a period of time, I've had the pleasure to converse with a number of ex Bomber Command crew members.
This particular gentleman flew with two different squadrons, with his last being with 576 squadron, bombing The Eagle's Nest at Obersalzberg in Berchtesgaden (Hitlers hideaway ).

Anyway, Before any crew member were place with an operational squadron, they had to complete the training at a HCU ( Heavy Conversion Unit ) .......... at various airbases around England which trained crews from smaller aircraft like, Wellingtons & Manchesters ( 5 crew aircraft ) to one of the three 'heavies' ( 7 crew aircraft ) ....... Short Stirlings, Handley Page Halifaxes and of course, the Avro Lancasters.

So when crews reached HCU's, they would train on mainly Short Stirlings. The reason for this was that they could not reach the same ceiling heights as the other two heavies, hence, they were slower and more likely to get shot down, thus being phased out from operations ( but not all ), so nearly all crews trained on Stirlings. The problem with Stirlings, they had duel rear wheels and as the aircraft turned and straightened up on the tarmac, the rear wheels would oscillate as the aircraft picked up speed, until just before take off, the aircraft would swing sharply off the tarmac and crash. Dennis & other crews, in their wisdom found a novel yet effective way to solve the problem.

Anyway, the following is from Dennis, a rear gunner who trained on Stirlings and when posted, flew in Lancaster for his tour of operations.

"Regarding "Violent Swings on Take Off" - Stirlings. Having twin manually retractable tail wheels. The wheels had tyres with special ridges to try and cure the problem of the wheels aligning, they were free castoring.

It was discovered that unless the wheels were aligned very straight at the start of the take-off, they would begin to oscillate getting more severe as speed increased, often causing the aircraft to swing off course at critical points. The cure was very effective. When the aircraft turned onto the runway, it first stopped, at which stage the rear gunner swung the turret to port, slid open the twin doors & with feet secured under the turret structure, lent right out and slightly down giving full view of the wheels, thus advising the skipper that "wheels in view". The Pilot then began slow forward movement gradually increasing speed & when the gunner called "wheels straight", take-off commenced. The gunner then had to promptly get back in and close his doors.

On one occasion, I made a fool of myself because at 1654 HCU, all spare land area was put under cultivation with the 'Land Army Girls'. A group of girls were standing alongside watching aircraft do curcuits & bumps. I turned and waved etc. to them, leaning slightly back & promptly fell out, helped by the slipstream, leaving one boot behind. I was neither the first or the last to fall out. It was only a short drop. Control tower told my pilot after take-off but the mid upper gunner had already spotted me. They were instructed to carry on their training exercise."

You were a remarkable bunch of men ........rest in peace Dennis, my friend..
John

 

Can anyone currently appearing on news, current affairs, ****ing Strictly or anything else, appear without a poppy? Seems not. Fascistic or what?

 

Even Jezza was wearing one at PMQs...

 

James McClean won't be wearing a poppy again this year. He gave his reasons last year (or was it the year before?) to Dave Whelan. I think it's fair enough. Personally I do feel differently about the wars where people were conscripted to later conflicts, though my respect for individual soldiers' preparedness to face risks that I would avoid at all costs is undiminished, and I'm happy to wear a poppy, and explain it's significance to the many non British colleagues I'll be working with in Amsterdam this week.

Dear Mr Whelan

I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton.

I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland’s history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people.

I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent.

I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if you’re a man you should stand up for what you believe in.

I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons.

As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club’s supporters this explanation.

Yours sincerely,

James McClean

I'm pretty sure this eloquent letter is ghost written, but if it expresses what he believes, fair enough.

 

Wearing a poppy has to be a choice. No one should be forced to do so.

The wearer should be seen to be making a statement, not the individual that chooses not to - for whatever reason.

 

I agree entirely, Stroller. The brave soldiers that died in WWII were fighting against fascism, so that we could maintain the right of freedom of choice and expression.

 

I don't have any problem with McClean's view which is perfectly understandable, it's just some of his actions that antagonise are petty and disrespectful. He could maintain a dignified silence and be thought of more highly...

 

Has anybody noticed the enamel pins that a number of managers are wearing, which have the poppy alongside the club crest? Mourinho and Wenger had them on MOTD yesterday and Allardyce has one today.

I find them somewhat distasteful as they've combined the solemn remembrance of the poppy with a little bit of football club promotion. I guess it won't be long before the Royal British Legion sell advertising space on them.

Still, I s'pose the point is to raise funds.

 

Alex Salmond had a badge with a poppy superimposed on a Scottish saltire this week.......

 

Disagree with you guys. If a player refuses to wear a poppy he should be left out of the squad and fined a weeks wages if possible

 

How are things going down at the Bridge?

 

I have nothing to say

 

Sort of defeats the meaning of the poppy, don't you think?

I'll wear one on the days leading up the Remembrance Sunday. It seems to be a competition now on TV to be wearing it as early as possible.

 

I'd like to see Salmond superimposed onto a rusty spike.

 

I can understand your thinking to an extent but at the end of the day, as others have mentioned, free choice must prevail. That's what our fathers fought for.

 

I've noticed this, and I hate it. Frankly, I hate the 'posh poppies' that people have started to wear as well, which would be number one in my list of submissions to room 101. For me, any poppy that isn't the traditional plain poppy shouldn't be worn, for two reasons.

Firstly (and less seriously), I'm certain that the RBL will end up making less money from 'posh poppies' than the plain cardboard ones. I don't know about you, but I end up buying 3-4 poppies each year as I lose mine or they break, which ends up leaving me giving more than had I just purchased the one posh poppy that probably doesn't get lost, and is probably re-used each year.

Secondly (and more seriously) I think the symbolism of the poppies all being the same, and being plain, is important. Young men from this country, and others, went together to fight and die for this country. Young and old, rich and poor, working class, middle class and upper. They all died together, lived in the same mud together, and shared in the mental and physical scars of combat. There was a uniformity, which the traditional cardboard poppy aptly represents. I therefore don't like the move towards posh shiny poppies, poppies with football club badges, or any other variant. Keep them solemn, keep them plain, keep them respectful!

 

Paper poppy worn with pride today.

At the going down of the sun.....

 

Fantastic turnout at the Cenotaph today, heroes every one...

 

Most wearing the traditional poppy, which will keep the cardbord crew happy. The Queen's was a bit flash though.

But no one, including the Royals, was wearing their poppy correctly. Should be worn left side of your chest (as most do). The red petals symbolise the blood lost, the black centre mourning, and the green leaf should be worn pointing at 11 o'clock, the time the armistice came into force. Very few get the last bit right, and I suspect the design makes it difficult to do, also that this particular bit of symbolism has been forgotten.

 

Most people who have been in or around the forces know that one. Your right though, the leaf always slips round.