Poppies and remembrance.

Your old man sounded like one hell of a guy Killy

 

To be fair there were good ordinary soldiers on all sides and bad. The fate of the Acqui Division massacred to the last man priests included, by the Nazis and the decision of the Pinerolo Division to pass over en masse to the Greek Resistence are two I can think of.

I can well remember old Italian soldiers with concentration camp numbers tattooed on their inside forearms, they had refused to fight alongside the Nazis following the armistice of '43. Also met one who had deserted from the Italian Army in Russia (ARMIR) and walked home to Romagna all the way from the River Don, over 3,000 km on foot with the continuous risk of being shot or dying of hunger or cold.

The mass rapes allowed to happen by allied officers both in Italy and its colonies were terrible though and unreported unlike what happened in Berlin.

 

Thanks Swords, he was - I guess when you're born & raised an R it's in your DNA! My Grandfather, the 1st gen R, was in France 1916 - 1919 with the Royal Engineers, so my gen was lucky to miss out on a world war.

In the late 1960's the grammar school I attended had compulsory CCF cadet training as part of the curriculum, so I learnt how to shoot a Lee Enfield 303 straight, but only at targets (scored 47/50 - Marksman first time out on the range - still not quite sure how I managed that - actually I recently found that badge, with a rifle & crown on it, that my Mum attached to my battledress blouse.

At that school if your parents were conscientious objectors, as a kid you were somewhat ostracized and you had to do gardening chores on Friday afternoons, whilst the rest of us dressed in uniform played war games!

I was in the Signals Corps, which was fun, so I learnt all that Alpha, Bravo, Charlie stuff!

 

There'll be a bit of Charlie stuff on Saturday evening with a bit of luck

 

Thanks Nines, certainly a very powerful film relating to that incident - it would appear during the execution that his comrades deliberately didn't include him in their aim and only shot the young partisans, then finally him when instructed to do so.

 

Never had you down as a "Ching King" Swords!

 

Gefreiter Josef Schulz (born 1909 or 1910, Barmen, died 20 July 1941, Balkans, Serbia) also spelled Joseph Schultz (Serbian: Jozef Å ulc), was a German soldier of the 714th Infantry Division stationed in the Balkans, Serbia during World War II. He died in 1941, allegedly executed after refusing to take part in a partisan execution. The German High Command recorded him as killed in action. The plot of the Yugoslav short movie Joseph Schultz (1973) is based on the incident. Based on a Bundesarchiv study, the incident was dismissed as a legend by scholars in the 1990s

nice story though

 

So no-one knows then?

 

You got a link for that Kiwi lad?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Schulz

Josef Schulz

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Link label|thumb|Photo of Josef Schulz

Gefreiter Josef Schulz (born 1909 or 1910, Barmen, died 20 July 1941, Balkans, Serbia) also spelled Joseph Schultz (Serbian: Jozef Šulc), was a German soldier of the 714th Infantry Division stationed in the Balkans, Serbia during World War II. He died in 1941, allegedly executed after refusing to take part in a partisan execution. The German High Command recorded him as killed in action. The plot of the Yugoslav short movie Joseph Schultz (1973) is based on the incident. Based on a Bundesarchiv study, the incident was dismissed as a legend by scholars in the 1990s.



Contents [hide]
1 Life
2 Partisans' execution incident
3 Movie
4 See also
5 References
6 External links


Life[edit]

Josef Schulz was born in 1909[citation needed] and lived in Barmen,[1] Wuppertal,[2] Germany. During World War II, he served as a corporal[1][2] in the 714th Infantry Division of the Wehrmacht.[3] He is officially recorded as having died during operations in Yugoslavia on 19 July 1941.[3]

Partisans' execution incident[edit]

On 20 July 1941, a Wehrmacht firing squad executed sixteen Yugoslav partisans within the barracks of Smederevska Palanka, southeast of Belgrade.[4] When the bodies of the victims were exhumed after the war, an eyewitness recalls that remains of military equipment ascribed to a German soldier were also recovered, while an identification tag got lost.[4] In 1947, when a memorial was erected for the victims, the name of a Croat victim with a German-sounding first name, Marsel Mezic, was rendered to Marcel Masel to reflect the belief that a German soldier was executed along with the partisans for refusing to take part in the executions.[4]





Picture showing an execution of Yugoslav partisans on 20 July 1941. The identification of the person without helmet as Josef Schulz[5] is disputed.[3]
In 1961 and 1966, West German weeklies Neue Illustrierte and Quick published photographs dated to 20 July 1941, showing an execution and, probably, a German soldier without helmet and belt walking toward the line of the victims.[4] The German public was asked to identify this person.[4] The photographs were shot by Wehrmacht units, developed by a Palanka local and left behind when the unit was relocated to the Eastern Front.[4] The Palanka chronicle also published the photographs, but without mentioning the defection of a German.[4]

In response to the German weeklies' appeal, West German Bundestag member Wilderich Freiherr Ostman von der Leye identified the person on the photographs as Josef Schulz.[4] He based his identification on the diary of Friedrich Stahl, commander of the 714th infantry division, which was made available to him by the Bundesarchiv's Military Archive in Freiburg, then headed by Stahl's son.[4] On Ostman's initiative, Josef's brother Walter Schulz travelled to Yugoslavia in 1972, and confirmed that the person in question was Josef Schulz.[4] In 1973, a journalist from the Yugoslav paper Politika visited Walter Schulz in Germany; afterwards, Yugoslav newspapers reported that Josef Schulz had been a capable artist and a member of an underground opposition to Hitler.[4] Zvonimr Janković, a Yugoslav eyewitness, confirmed that he had seen a German officer arguing furiously with a German without insignia on his uniform.[4]

In contrast, some of Josef Schulz's former Wehrmacht comrades said that the person on the photographs was not Schulz.[4] A 1972 report of the Central Office of the State Justice Administration for the Investigation of National Socialist Crimes in Ludwigsburg, Germany, also rejected the person's identification with Schulz.[4] Studies conducted by the staff of the Ludwigsburg office and the Freiburg Military Archive conclude that Josef Schulz was killed already on 19 July 1941[2][3][4] during an engagement with partisans,[2][3] and that he was reported dead to the army command on 20 July 2:00 AM, with a respective notice sent to the relatives subsequently.[4] Scholars have since dismissed Schulz's alleged role in the incident on 20 July as a legend.[2][3]

Schulz nevertheless remained a popular figure in Yugoslavia, despite protests from a veteran partisan organization.[4] In the early 1980s, a second memorial was erected at the execution site in Palanka, where Schulz's name was added to those of the sixteen Yugoslav victims and the name of Marsel Mezic appears in its proper spelling.[4] While the Schulz legend is not as popular in Germany, West German ambassadors Horst Grabert and Wilfried Gruber attended ceremonies in Palanka in 1981 and 1997, respectively.[4]

Movie[edit]

In 1973, Yugoslav Zastava Films released the short movie Joseph Schultz. The plot based on Schultz's refusal to execute Yugoslav partisans and his eventual execution by the firing squad he was assigned to. The 13 minutes long 16 mm sound and color movie was directed by Danko Popovic and Predrag Golubic. Original sepia photographies were combined with a re-enactment of the incident. In Canada and the United States, the movie was distributed by Wombat Productions, New York.[6][7]

The movie was recommended as a resource for teaching by the US-based Educational Film Library Association (EFLA)[7] and by a Torah Aura Productions teachers' guide, Teaching the Holocaust.[8]

 

Cheers Kiwi. Watching the Royal British Legion Festival here. Impressive stuff.

 

Just seen Jessica Ennis on SSN with a poppy on her shirt. Is it not a bit early for that?

 

exactly, its a bit early. saw a reporter on the news wearing one. better dust mine off then, it's obviously that time of year again.

 

Poppy's can be sold from today I think. Just delivered about 25 boxes to various pubs, shops for my Legion Club.

 

I've got a vintage one. Been bringing the same one out year after year for about ten years now. Stick it in the wash, job done!

 

Today is the first day of poppy selling. there was a parade through London to present David Cameron with his poppy. On the news this morning
So today is launch day

 

The British Legion shop was open and selling a vast array of Poppies last Saturday, I bought my 1915-2015 lapel badge there.

Marine Boy, I hope your 'recycling' comment was just a poor joke.

Stand by for the same debate we have had for the last few years. Though to be honest I would welcome interesting comment on this thread, always gets my attention.

 

What if it wasn't ?

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p.s put me back on ignore at once!

 

If it wasn't you are just proving what a total ****er you are, yet again. I know you are not the sharpest tool in the box but if I have to spell out what is wrong with the idea of reusing Poppies you are even closer to pond life than I suspected.

You are on ignore and will remain that way in perpetuity. I was curious to see what a waste of space like you would have to comment on a thread like this. You didn't disappoint, vacuous, tedious, content free crap as always.

Bye bye.