Poppies and remembrance.

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Uber_Hoop, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Eh ?? Don't get ya Swords
     
    #21
  2. Swords Hoopster.

    Swords Hoopster. Well-Known Member

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    I read earlier somewhere you was giving out to me. You seemed pissed off.
     
    #22
  3. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    My paternal grandfather was gassed on the Somme and invalided back to Blighty. Given the appalling loss of life suffered by both sides in that conflict, it is not unreasonable for me to believe that the gas perversely saved my life. I would not be here but for that.
     
    #23
  4. Swords Hoopster.

    Swords Hoopster. Well-Known Member

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    Just seen on the news that the Irish PM and Deputy PM laid wreaths at ceremonies in Enniskillen and Belfast respectively. This is the first time this has happened.

    No poppies worn though and the wreaths were green "laurel" ones.
     
    #24
  5. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Not at all Swords, my post is there to read. Just asking a question of you.
    If I was getting the wrong end of the stick then apologies (yep I am a bit pissed off at the moment but not at you or anyone on here) :(
     
    #25
  6. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Strangely similar Uber. My paternal grandfather volunteered in 1917, when he was 17. Lewis gun blew up in his face during training, 18 months in hospital. But survived to pass his genes on and teach me chess and cribbage.
     
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  7. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    All the best mate.
     
    #27
  8. Trypsin-1

    Trypsin-1 Active Member

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    McClean didn't not wear the poppy because he didn't want to respect the war, but for other actions of the British army he disagreed with. I respect the soldiers in the two world wars but I also disagree with their stance in the Middle East and Ireland, so I didn't buy/wear a poppy.
     
    #28
  9. Vale_Hoops

    Vale_Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Remembrance day is not about respecting wars or actions or politics or glorification, if anything its the opposite. Its about the sacrifice people have made and we remember it each year so it's not forgotten and everyone remember sthe price of a war. If you think all those lives were lost in vain it should have just as much meaning to you as if you think it was a noble sacrifice.

    Lest we not forget.

    They went with songs to the battle, they were young.
    Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.
    They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
    They fell with their faces to the foe.

    They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
    Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
    At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
    We will remember them
     
    #29
  10. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to get into a deep debate as Irish histroy with our neighbouring country as it is long and complicated but I would just like to say that Mc Clean is very stupid to do what he did. I know he may have reasons but, he lives and works in England so he should show a little more respect.

    I know we have had our differences in the past but we have far more in common with each other than probably any other two countries in the whole of Europe. Culturally, we are very similar.

    Lets remember what brings us all together rather than what drives us apart.

    Anybody for a pint Saturday? You r's.
     
    #30

  11. Swords Hoopster.

    Swords Hoopster. Well-Known Member

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    That's a great post Fingi.

    Anyone read Robert Fisk at the bottom of the last page? I can kind of see where he's coming from. Maybe the whole thing has been dumbed down a bit.
     
    #31
  12. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    Cheers Swords.

    The paternal great grandfather was a soldier from Yorkshire who was posted over to Mullingar.

    The maternal grand father fought in WW2 with the Sussex Regiment.

    There are huge similarities between all of us on these islands.
     
    #32
  13. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    poppy day here is 25th april
    anzac day
    maybe they send the ones that arent sold in november here
    as for fisk... for someone so anti war etc he makes a nice living covering them
     
    #33
  14. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    The soldiers go where their ordered to go by politicians. It's not the SOLDIERS' stance is it?
     
    #34
  15. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    As you alluded to earlier, Swords, people have the right to make their own decisions. McClean presumably has done so, albeit with the backdrop of some indoctrination (but, hey, who isn't indoctrinated in some way shape or form?) Nevertheless, in certain circumstances it is helpful to understand the reasons leading to particular decisions. Given the fact that we're talking about a professional footballer here, and one that has amassed a mere 23 years at that, I would not be surprised if he cannot adequately articulate his reasons.

    An interesting piece by Robert Fisk, but I would argue that he's railing more against the faux solemnity exhibited by media types (with whom he associates) than the sentiment behind the Poppy Appeal etc. I think its a terrible shame that he chooses to react to this hi-jacking of the poppy (my expression, not his) by declining to wear one himself, rather than use his influence to remind people of the great sacrifices made by servicemen and women over the years, as well as the invaluable work done by so many to look after the many wounded and bereaved etc. His father's aversion to the memory of the war in which he fought is so closely related to the sentiment of the poppy.

    Why does everything have to be politicised so?
     
    #35
  16. ClonmanyHoop

    ClonmanyHoop Member

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    James McClean is from the Creggan area of Derry, His family still live there. You need to understand the implications of him wearing a poppy in the eyes of some of the people in his native Derry. They would make it VERY uncomfortable for his family.
    It's not right but you have to live in the enviroment to understand it. I live quite close and understand his reasoning.
     
    #36
  17. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    I am not entirely ignorant of the history. It is just a crying shame that matters such as this should be so politicised. It is not like we're asking McClean to bow to Her Majesty or salute the Union flag. Of course, it is a thankless task to argue against certain types of bigotry and would presumably require a great deal of bravery for McClean have done other than he did.
     
    #37
  18. KooPeeArr

    KooPeeArr Well-Known Member

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    I love the sentiment of the poppy appeal and always do my bit.

    That said, I once gave my donation and didn't take the poppy as it costs a small amount and I was effectively donating an extra 5-10% as a result. My friends absolutely slated me for this and couldn't see my point. I also stated that the appeal is so widely known that my visual support added very little.

    I now wear one every year but probably put less thought into what I'm doing than I did that year.

    Strange that there's such a stigma attached to not wearing a bit of plastic and paper no matter how much sentiment, charity and consideration of it's meaning is put in by either wearing it or not.

    Sorry to bore but it's just an alternative view.
     
    #38
  19. Swords Hoopster.

    Swords Hoopster. Well-Known Member

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    Its time for the annual Poppy debate. I'll kick it off with an observation of mine that may or may not be correct.

    Firstly I think Poppy wearing is a great tradition and is a very fitting tribute to the soldiers who died in the two World Wars (I've given up trying to find out exaclty who or what it officially commemorates though). The story behind the flower itself and how it sprouted in Flanders etc makes it a lovely gesture of remembrance to those brave men of the Great War (& WW2).

    However, maybe its just me but years ago it seemed like the Poppy was worn for just a few days leading up to Remembrance Sunday and that was it. Now when you turn on the TV it seems like its being worn for weeks on end. Also, the Poppies appear to have gotten bigger in some quarters and some look almost freakishly large, you know, out of proportion to the individual's head and torso. Maybe I'm imagining this and I'd like someone to confirm or deny these assumptions of mine.

    Anyway, my question is this. When you have a really special and solemn gesture for a very special event, like the Poppy, does anyone think that its possible to overcook it somehow and thereby maybe lose some of the "essence" of what its supposed to be all about? You know like if you had Christmas every day in December, wouldn't it kind of dilute the 25th itself? I don't think its happened yet but is there a chance the Poppy might get so overused that it becomes a sort of fashion accessory and God forbid, even tacky?

    Please take this question in the way that its meant and not for a moment an attack on a fantastic and lovely tribute to great men and women. Rather see it as a genuine concern at seeing such a noble symbol being diminished through (albeit well-intentioned) overuse and inappropriateness.




    (This question applies to everyone except NY. An American will not understand anything I've written regarding "too big" and "tacky" :emoticon-0136-giggl)
     
    #39
  20. Didley Squat

    Didley Squat Well-Known Member

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    I thought the idea of wearing poppies was to acknowledge & pay respect to those that have lost their lives whilst serving our countries.
    It should have squat to do with politics.
     
    #40

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