Off Topic Politics Thread

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Yep, definitely mileage for the Lib Dems in campaigning as the Remain party, although that might be counter productive in some regions.

There are sure to be plenty of both Labour and Conservative voters who are disenchanted with their respective leaderships' weak positions on the issue.
 
It'll be counter productive in some areas but it'll help in others and that's fine for where they are now as a party. They're not trying to win the next election, just rebound from the disaster of 2015.
 
Whiteley Saint said:
My concern is not how rich they are but what their intentions are.
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To get richer? Trump has already shown that tbh. Making his son and daughter in charge of his business in only name. While he is the one that is still actually the owner.

The woman they hired for transports dad owns a huge coal company in China and exports it around the world. Trump wants more coal power plants, what a surprise...
 
Mattis is really not a bad pick. I feel like the wall between the military and civilian Secretary of Defense should be preserved. Trump is going to get around that requirement. So I dislike the pick for that reason.

But I don't dislike Mattis personally. If Mattis had been retired for a few more years and was picked for Sec. of Defense I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.
 
If you'd like some ex Yugoslav helmets, gas masks, anti-nuclear shelters, geiger counters or decontamination first aid kits - look me up on ebay! user ID "dauntlesssearch" - get them before January! (most items only on special request)
 
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Andrew Neil was right, as usual, and the Lib Dems really need to drop the Democrat part. they clearly don't give a toss about it.
 
Piebacca said:
Andrew Neil was right, as usual, and the Lib Dems really need to drop the Democrat part. they clearly don't give a toss about it.
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Given that their candidate has just overturned a 23,000 incumbent majority in a bi election, I should think the Lib Dems are busy celebrating democracy <ok>

In a functioning democracy, btw, don't you think everyone has a right to have their voices heard? Not just the 52% who vote one way, but also the 48% who hold different opinions? Especially on such a vital issue where the vote is so close.
 
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Saints_Alive said:
The way things are going, the Lib Dems will be getting my vote in the next election.
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My local Lib Dem candidate, Tessa Munt, who lost her seat last year, has documented evidence that she has done far more for her former constituents since the election than James Heappey the Tory who beat her. She was a brilliant MP who knew huge numbers of her constituents by their first names. She'll certainly get my vote next time.
 
Piebacca said:
Andrew Neil was right, as usual, and the Lib Dems really need to drop the Democrat part. they clearly don't give a toss about it.
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Of the main political parties, the LibDems are the only group who have ever been serious about Proportional Representation, which, I think means that they are the ONLY main party interested in proper democracy, and not the sham winner-takes-all plan we've had since parliament first sat.
 
Archers Road said:
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In a functioning democracy, btw, don't you think everyone has a right to have their voices heard? Not just the 52% who vote one way, but also the 48% who hold different opinions? Especially on such a vital issue where the vote is so close.
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Exactly. I find that I live in my country unrepresented at national level and international level. How can that be.? I didn't vote for the Conservatives and I'm one of the 48%. Instead of polarisation, which is what happened across the board of issues, there ought to be representation for everyone. One day, even this so-called mature democracy might grow up enough to adopt it.
 
TheSecondStain said:
Exactly. I find that I live in my country unrepresented at national level and international level. How can that be.? I didn't vote for the Conservatives and I'm one of the 48%. Instead of polarisation, which is what happened across the board of issues, there ought to be representation for everyone. One day, even this so-called mature democracy might grow up enough to adopt it.
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No democratic voting system can ever give everyone who or what they voted for unless every single one of us vote exactly the same. The Tory voters probably felt the same when Labour were in charge. I don't know how you voted but there are representatives of all parties in Parliament. Changing the way we vote would shuffle the numbers about in favour, I think, of the smaller parties but that doesn't mean the people in charge would change. I'm not sure there is a perfect system having just witnessed America's effort.
 
Whiteley Saint said:
No democratic voting system can ever give everyone who or what they voted for unless every single one of us vote exactly the same. The Tory voters probably felt the same when Labour were in charge. I don't know how you voted but there are representatives of all parties in Parliament. Changing the way we vote would shuffle the numbers about in favour, I think, of the smaller parties but that doesn't mean the people in charge would change. I'm not sure there is a perfect system having just witnessed America's effort.
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Well America's effort, as you call it, is nowhere near perfect either. As for the change in our political voting system, whilst no system is perfect, don't you think it's better to head closer to an ideal, rather than obstinately remain undemocratic.? When you consider that, under our present system, of those people who vote [and that's ridiculously low], pretty much just over a third are the only ones represented, don't you think it might be an idea to get closer to a better democracy, so that most people can at least feel that their vote counts.?

And by the way, I have been calling for PR ever since I can remember, even when the party I voted for was in power.
 
TheSecondStain said:
Well America's effort, as you call it, is nowhere near perfect either. As for the change in our political voting system, whilst no system is perfect, don't you think it's better to head closer to an ideal, rather than obstinately remain undemocratic.? When you consider that, under our present system, of those people who vote [and that's ridiculously low], pretty much just over a third are the only ones represented, don't you think it might be an idea to get closer to a better democracy, so that most people can at least feel that their vote counts.?

And by the way, I have been calling for PR ever since I can remember, even when the party I voted for was in power.
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I'm not sure how PR would work but it may be the answer. Maybe you can tell me. If an area mainly voted Labour but under PR for the UK they needed to put a Tory representative in how would that be fair? Is this how it would work? I can't pretend I've read up about PR so maybe I'm way off the mark here.

Maybe we need to try to find a way to get more people to vote!
 
Whiteley Saint said:
I'm not sure how PR would work but it may be the answer. Maybe you can tell me. If an area mainly voted Labour but under PR for the UK they needed to put a Tory representative in how would that be fair? Is this how it would work? I can't pretend I've read up about PR so maybe I'm way off the mark here.

Maybe we need to try to find a way to get more people to vote!
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Australia make everyone vote by making it compulsory I believe. You can abstain from voting for any of the candidates but you still have to complete a ballot form.
Please correct me if this isn't the case.
 
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