Off Topic Politics Thread

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Same here. I don't buy or read any paper now

Nor me. I read very little with editorial comment, like a newspaper. All I want is accurate information. Unfortunately, one can't even look at the TV these days without getting opinionated comment, so I tend to read respected news websites and listen to the radio. None of the Yahoo, Fail, Express, Sky agenda ****.
 
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So the Prime Minsters office has said they aren't commenting on newspaper coverage on the judges ruling disgrace. But they are more than happy to comment on the ****ing daily mails poppy campaign and FIFA.

All about the votes.
 
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I voted stay and I think the Judges are correct, so it isn't everyone that thinks that the decision is wrong. I also think the Government are right to have an opinion about the disgraceful behaviour of FIFA.
 
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On Radio 5 yesterday they were doing a vox pop of attitudes towards living within diverse communities. The general consensus was that people like to live with others like themselves.

This shouldn't really be a surprise. Many/most/significant numbers of people don't like change, and they like to live where they feel they can trust or be trusted.

I grew up in an Italian immigrant family, yet my Mum was English. When I look back I get the vaguest sense that my conscious approval/disapproval of cultural and ethnic differences came from her. It wasn't her fault, she was formed by a totally different time with long outdated attitudes. I'm different. I grew up when the UK was dramatically altering its ethnic balance. So I was educated to appreciate the checks and balances. As far as I know, my Dad wasn't racist. He was a couple of unfortunate things, but not that. My Mum was [is, she's still kicking], I believe, but she kept it largely to herself. I have always believed that I am not racist, but if I'm brutally honest with myself I have to say that I am, because I see the differences first before my rational, educated side takes over. Like me, my sister sees the differences [we talked recently about this] and feels the same way. We are slightly ashamed of ourselves because we thought we were better than that. Our younger generation do not see the differences. They grew up in a culturally diverse world and we didn't pass on any taint of what was inadvertently programmed into us. So they are entirely free of it.

This wrangling with attitudes to ethnicity is going to die out in time with the generations. I would have hoped by now that it was over, but it seems we have to go the long route. As comedian Jim Jefferies said rather well a few years back, society only progresses at the pace of the slowest person. The fastest ones show the way. As it happens, I would have no problems with living in a diverse community, yet I largely don't, although I'm the ethnic minority here. Is that an accident.?
there's nothing racist about noticing or commenting on differences between races - your only racist if you think those differences make yours a superior race
 
there's nothing racist about noticing or commenting on differences between races - your only racist if you think those differences make yours a superior race
Exactly. In the NHS, for example, everyone has to do courses on Equality and Diversity. That doesn't mean everyone should be treated exactly the same, but according to their own specific needs including cultural differences.
 
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Apparently this is a Daily Mail online headline..
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Life is a funny old thing. I have mentioned here before I was born from an Indian father and an Italian mother. God (who I no longer believe in) knows what both their families thought of that in 1965 when they were wed. To make it worse my catholic mother was pregnant with my brother when they got wed. And he was 2 ½ months premature in January 1966 to make even more tongues wag...

I was made in Italy and born in the UK in 1969. I grew up in the 70s amongst the black and white mistrals, the Robertson Golly Wogs and TV programs such as 'mind your language' and 'love thy neighbour'. Even 'it ain't half hot mum' was a dodgy show looking back on it. Has life changed since then - god yes. BUT, what I have noticed is a worse sense of integration in the communities now than there was then. Maybe I was unique in that I was born to two cultures, so never leaned too heavily one way or the other, or maybe the world has gone a little bit too much the other way now. As a half Indian bloke I cannot see why Hindi or Punjabi is taught in schools in a European (for now) country, but I can understand why French, German or Italian is. The fact that in some schools the predominant language isn't English in England is appalling and I just don't get it. I was brought up with the (excuse the pun) 'When in Rome' attitude. But, some attitudes are so ingrained in people that I no longer get annoyed by it.

Even my mate that takes me to football goes on about 'bloody foreigners' all the time and I can't be bothered to point out that although I was born here 47 years ago, I am one of those 'bloody foreigners' he talks about. Looking back at it I say to my dad WTF were you doing taking me as a kid (of a tanned complexion) to football matches in the late 70s/early 80s - at least that has changed for the better now.

What I am trying to say is that yep, we are all different. Yep we all have different views. I think in the main that culture in the UK has changed for the better and we as a whole are more tolerant (than in the 60s/70s/80s), but we don't want to lose our identity. I am proud to be a Brit and am proud of my country. Did I vote to stay? Hell yep. Is that because of my heritage? Yep. Britain to me is better off integrated in a wider Europe in my view. Do we have an immigration issue? Yep. I can say that as an Anglo/Indian/Italian man and not deemed to be racist.

Sorry for the ramble, but I hope you can see this view from slightly the other side and not just a totally white Brit view. :)

Anyway... if it wasn't for the EU, we wouldn't have beaten Inter Milan yesterday :)

Up the saints!

Edit:
Whilst I'm rambling on, my blonde white wife is sympathetic, but doesn't really understand what it is like to 'stand out' or be different. Maybe that is part of growing up. Or maybe that comes from her deeply 'opinionated' mother (who was born in 1923), who 'sadly' passed away last year :)
 
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I reckon the yanks will pull back from the abyss. But I can't find an American willing to go out on a limb and reassure me that Trump can't possibly win. He can't though, can he?
I think even if he doesn't America will be a mess afterwards. He has done the same Brexit did to us. All the crazies come forward and do racist **** thinking it makes their belief right.
 
Daily Mail editor having a fairly tough time defending his irrelevant short biographies of 3 judges who decided on what happens pre-Brexit. Frankly, he's squirming, and so he should. He has nothing of any substance to say.
 
Daily Mail editor having a fairly tough time defending his irrelevant short biographies of 3 judges who decided on what happens pre-Brexit. Frankly, he's squirming, and so he should. He has nothing of any substance to say.
Are you talking about Newsnight? If so that wasn't the editor, just a columnist.
 
I have been interested in the debate about England and Scotland facing opposition to being allowed to wear poppies on their jerseys because of Remembrance Sunday. Having grown up in an era when there were plenty of veterans from both World Wars around, I would tend to support the consensus that the endeavours of these generations is worthy of being remembered for the sacrifices they gave. However, it is very difficult for me to support our military these days and condone their behavior in Iraq and Afghanistan as they effectively partook in illegal wars. I think it is also highly questionable that the army's behaviour in Northern Ireland should be commemorated in the same fashion as I think they were as culpable as the terrorists on both political sides. Although the military have done good things in places like Sierra Leone in recent years, it is very difficult not to consider the military actions of my time as being the extension of politics by other means.

When it comes to football, I think that FIFA are 100% correct in banning poppies from shirts. It is an individual choice to decide to wear a poppy and I think the dubious nature of recent conflicts makes putting a poppy on a football jersey overtly political, I totally appreciate many Catholic footballers from Ireland refusing to wear poppies and the annual reaction of teams like Celtic against this symbol is justified in my opinion. In fact, the poppy is far, far more political than the recent controversy regarding the Easter Rising celebrations on the Irish jerseys.

It is interesting when it comes to symbolism on football kits because so many national badges include either a cross or a crescent. Thankfully, the England badge is three lions which cannot be construed as political.

The other point I wanted to raise was the fact that some clubs are alleged to have offered discounted tickets to matches for members of the military services. There was a very good article in the left-leaning football magazine "When Saturday comes" which pointed out that it is incorrect for one profession to be singled out in this fashion and that nurses and doctors should probably have an even greater entitlement. They never get celebrated and no one wears a poppy for what they do. There was also a comment in the article about the one minute silence rendering the conflation of football and overt nationalism into something you would expect to see in a Third World dictatorship.

I think it is time we ditched the poppies and Remembrance Sunday as it seems to stoke unwanted nationalism.and maybe we should celebrate something far more worthy like the doctors and nurses in our hospitals. They make me more proud of this country than any soldiers.
 
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The Sun for you...

Getting kinda scary.