Off Topic Politics Thread

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St Badger said:
It's more than a mess. As I said a few pages back, Jeremy needs to take one for the team, and resign, then unite his followers behind his successor. Then the party need to come up with some believable policies that resonate with the working class.
I'm guessing, from your post, you might be a Tory?
Should Boris be selected to lead the party, would your vote, in a General Election, still be cast for the Tories, in the knowledge that you are putting an outrageous liar into the most powerful position, in the country?
Apologies if I have guessed wrong.
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In truth I did vote for the Tory's last time out..........However I have to say while Im not a socialist at this moment in time Im not sure who I would vote for. For the record I am not Keen on Boris either.....Lummy............ I guess that puts me in the "don't know camp" :emoticon-0104-surpr:emoticon-0104-surpr
 
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This is all so sad, It could be that the right of the Tory party and the far left of Labour party will end up arguing about s**t whilst the country goes down the toilet. Why? because the Turkeys voted for Christmas! It seems to me that the gene is out the bottle. The conservative views of the elderly combined with frustrations of the 'have nots' have led us to a place where the irrational is triumphant. All my life (65 years+) I've believed in equality of opportunity, social justice, a safety net for those in need. I would argue with those who advocated policies that seemed to undermine those beliefs, but there were checks and balances. Now it is all up for grabs

Anyone, with a true sense of what it is to be British watching Farage's small minded triumphalism in Brussels today could not help but feel shame. An organisation originally set up to avoid another war, to ensure that fascism would never raise it's head in Europe again, having seen democracy come to Spain and Portugal was faced with taunts from a man too far to the right to be welcome in Tory party.

What of the Tory party? I mean Boris? really? I suppose if the Labour party were really bright they would hire Paul Merton to do PMQs. Theresa May? as excited about remain as Corbyn, always on the lookout for a headline without ever tackling the real issues as a home secretary, like why are there so many people with mental health issues in prison, why does the prison population keep going up? I'll ignore all the experts on drug abuse because I can imagine the headlines in the Sun, meanwhile I'll continue to under value and under resource the police force because I haven't got the guts to take on the chancellor.. Hunt? sorry the spell check is knackered.

What of the Labour party? Mr Corbyn? Nice man, SO AM I, but I'm not looking to be prime minister and nor should he, piss ups and breweries spring to mind. Alan Johnson? down to earth, but a populist at heart (read his autobiography). Yvette Cooper? fluent, but tarnished by offering more of the Brownite same.

So we might end up with a general election where it is Johnson and Johnson. The country could then be run by an American Multi National Pharmaceutical Company, sorry the wine is taking over, or is it? ;)
 
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tiggermaster said:
This is all so sad, It could be that the right of the Tory party and the far left of Labour party will end up arguing about s**t whilst the country goes down the toilet. Why? because the Turkeys voted for Christmas! It seems to me that the gene is out the bottle. The conservative views of the elderly combined with frustrations of the 'have nots' have led us to a place where the irrational is triumphant. All my life (65 years+) I've believed in equality of opportunity, social justice, a safety net for those in need. I would argue with those who advocated policies that seemed to undermine those beliefs, but there were checks and balances. Now it is all up for grabs
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The house is full of them though.

We had Ken Livingstone and Naz shah on the select committee that was conducting an investigation into anti-semitism!!! Erm

We still have Margaret Hodge as the chair of her select committee to tackle tax evasion when her family business paid 0.01% on it's £2.1bn and she is the one up there on the TV calling for Jeremy to go.

It isn't just our parliament though. It is everywhere in the world.
 
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Not at all convinced Corbyn would win another Leaderhip Election. I personally know a few people who voted for him last time who, for a number of reasons, would be unlikely to do so again.

I'll be attending an open meeting with Caroline West, Labour MP for Hornsey and Wood Green, on Saturday. It will be interesting to see what the mood is like there if Corbyn is still around. Caroline's constituency is right next door to Jeremy's.
 
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Whiteley Saint said:
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I just have a feeling pro-EU people aren't going to let this go. Obviously, as a EU supporter I'm happy about that in principle, but this is going to cause real divides in the country, which I'm obviously not sanguine about. However, I see a constricted future for the educated younger people in the UK, who generally aren't racist, aren't xenophobic [that's certainly not saying those lacking a university education generally are]. Are completely happy working alongside people from Europe, whether they be working in the UK or in the European mainland. And from conversations, and keeping my eye on the university set, I think a lot of them don't see a future here either. It's a different mindset and it's something we've been educating our younger ones for several generations now. So to do a complete political about-turn to these people is almost betraying everything they've learned about having a broader outlook. I can honestly see a partial brain drain to Europe and the rest of the world.
 
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It's an outrage that the majority of the PLP are putting their own career ambitions in front of the national interest. At this crucial time of national uncertainty, the PLP should be uniting under their democratically elected leader to capitalise on the chaos that is the Conservative Party. It's a travesty how this has dominated the news, while Cameron (who called the referendum due to in-party divisions) has seemingly escaped focus. The PLP must remember they are representatives and thus should respect Jeremy Corbyn's clear mandate, yet have spun this into a coup relating to the EU when Corbyn was never the focus of this referendum.

How they believe they can better represent a Eurosceptic country ahead of a leader who clearly intends to reform the EU I'll never know. The global political spectrum has shifted to anti-establishment protest votes, so why would anyone believe an austerity-lite ticket for a general election would be a success?

It would be understandable if the PLP were so devastated over leaving the EU and that they genuinely believed it was solely Corbyn's fault, but this has been coming since he was first elected. The orchestrated resignations were frankly embarrassing, and shows how out of touch the PLP is that they'd rather fill the news with petty resignations rather than critique the Tory party on their next step, and find out where the UK goes next in terms of our relationship with the EU - that should be their priority, not petty resignations to destabilise a party that has never needed to unite more as soon as possible.
 
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SFCJoe said:
It's an outrage that the majority of the PLP are putting their own career ambitions in front of the national interest. At this crucial time of national uncertainty, the PLP should be uniting under their democratically elected leader to capitalise on the chaos that is the Conservative Party. It's a travesty how this has dominated the news, while Cameron (who called the referendum due to in-party divisions) has seemingly escaped focus. The PLP must remember they are representatives and thus should respect Jeremy Corbyn's clear mandate, yet have spun this into a coup relating to the EU when Corbyn was never the focus of this referendum.

How they believe they can better represent a Eurosceptic country ahead of a leader who clearly intends to reform the EU I'll never know. The global political spectrum has shifted to anti-establishment protest votes, so why would anyone believe an austerity-lite ticket for a general election would be a success?

It would be understandable if the PLP were so devastated over leaving the EU and that they genuinely believed it was solely Corbyn's fault, but this has been coming since he was first elected. The orchestrated resignations were frankly embarrassing, and shows how out of touch the PLP is that they'd rather fill the news with petty resignations rather than critique the Tory party on their next step, and find out where the UK goes next in terms of our relationship with the EU - that should be their priority, not petty resignations to destabilise a party that has never needed to unite more as soon as possible.
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Don't you think those MPs (80%) who supported the no confidence motion in the leader will have consulted their constituency organisations before deciding how to act? Pretty sure most would.

It's Corbyn who is now acting sisgracefully imo. He polls disastrously outside of the already converted and the Labour Party can't win an election with him in charge. He can't lead in parliament when 80% of elected MPs have no confidence in him. The Corbyn experiment has failed, & he needs to go, now. Like right now.
 
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Archers Road said:
Don't you think those MPs (80%) who supported the no confidence motion in the leader will have consulted their constituency organisations before deciding how to act? Pretty sure most would.

It's Corbyn who is now acting sisgracefully imo. He polls disastrously outside of the already converted and the Labour Party can't win an election with him in charge. He can't lead in parliament when 80% of elected MPs have no confidence in him. The Corbyn experiment has failed, & he needs to go, now. Like right now.
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These PLP MPs outside of London have been told for a year by their constituency members and campaigners that they are losing their voterbase to UKIP. John Healey and John Cruddas have investigated and reported to the PLP. They just ignore it. They have been far too busy playing along with the media and commentating on a Tory divide and "how will they recover". They are going to see how quickly the Tory party will recover and regroup. It was never going to be that much of a problem.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...labour-jon-cruddas-report-welfare-immigration
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/23/labour-win-working-class-voters-ukip
 
Union leaders vow to help Corbyn fight Labour coup – ‘the Blairite virus is spreading again’

Yet in a sign that a lot of the grassroots support remains for Corbyn, the trade unions are preparing to stand by their man. After the vote results were announced on Tuesday, Len McCluskey told MPs that if they wish to contest a Labour leadership, it must be done ‘democratically through an election, not through resignations and pointless posturing’. He warned that ‘Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters throughout the movement will be ready for it’.

Tosh McDonald, the president of Aslef, went further by claiming that he now found it difficult to decide who he hated the most out of Margaret Thatcher and the Parliamentary Labour Party.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/union-leaders-vow-to-help-corbyn-fight-labour-coup/
 
ImpSaint said:
Union leaders vow to help Corbyn fight Labour coup – ‘the Blairite virus is spreading again’

Yet in a sign that a lot of the grassroots support remains for Corbyn, the trade unions are preparing to stand by their man. After the vote results were announced on Tuesday, Len McCluskey told MPs that if they wish to contest a Labour leadership, it must be done ‘democratically through an election, not through resignations and pointless posturing’. He warned that ‘Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters throughout the movement will be ready for it’.

Tosh McDonald, the president of Aslef, went further by claiming that he now found it difficult to decide who he hated the most out of Margaret Thatcher and the Parliamentary Labour Party.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/union-leaders-vow-to-help-corbyn-fight-labour-coup/
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It seems to me that Corbyn represents more of Labour's core values than the rest of the Labour Party...
 
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Osvaldorama said:
It seems to me that Corbyn represents more of Labour's core values than the rest of the Labour Party...
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HE does which says it all about where the Labour party is at the minute. He is a long way from being where the core vote is and is unelectable but those that are trying to shift him are Blairite and even further away.

It will either be Tom Watson or Corbyn that wins a leadership election. Blairites do not have enough support anymore. Blairite supporters are those that have more money. The types that write in papers, sit on Question Time etc. The run of the mill Labour supporter absolutely detests "Red Tories" aka Blairites.


One post I just saw from a labour voter viewpoint:
Corbyn needs to stay in long enough for the Chilcot report to come out. Then the Blairite collaborators will be toast.
 
Osvaldorama said:
It seems to me that Corbyn represents more of Labour's core values than the rest of the Labour Party...
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That's fine but their core values won't get them elected as a Government. The last 20+ years have shown that the electorate prefers a more central party so they can have a bit of everything. If the Labour party have decided they don't want to challenge the Tories and would rather go back to their roots then they should stick with Corbin. If they hope to get in Government they need to change him. They need to attract voters outside their hardcore supporters to do this.
 
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This is the kind of problem Labour has. It isn't so much racist towards a section of society. It is suspicion that Labour ignores certain crimes or viewpoints in return for votes. It is this suspicion that has caused a rise in racism in this country and every party could do with getting all this stuff out in the open and not trying to treat these things differently because they are worried about offending. That "worry about offending" has been seen in many cases of "ignoring to get the block vote."

"If Tom Watson were to run against Corbyn, it would make it difficult for the trade unions to dismiss the party’s current turmoil as another Blairite plague."

This fat thug has already betrayed the English people
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/west-midlands-police-report-reveals-7948902

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/...similarities-to-rotherham-scandal-say-police/

The Witchfinder General has never said a word about it.

Wrong kind of victims and wrong kind of perpetrators

Gotta keep the bloc vote onside

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...om-Watson-attend-segregated-Muslim-rally.html

It is the way the politicians deal with people's interpretation of these kind of things that is causing the problem. Instead of being open and informative about these things they just cry "racist" and move on without addressing the issue which in turn increases suspicions.
 
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