Off Topic Politics Thread

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There certainly is the feeling within the NHS that they are being set up to fail.
Mr Hunt's mantra, supported by our prime minister, that a 7 day a week NHS was part of the Tories Manifesto seems hollow when 5 years earlier Mr Cameron promised 'No top down reorganisation of the NHS', only for Lansley's reforms to land the NHS in it's biggest managerial and administrative mess ever.

I worked for the NHS for 33 years. many of them in senior positions whilst maintaining a clinical input. I know many senior clinicians still working within the NHS or who have recently retired, they either want out, or are pleased to have 'escaped'. A generation ago many would have continued part time post retirement, not least to lend experience when career advancement is not an issue. More and more are making a clean break. We are not training enough nurses, junior doctors will leave in their thousands if Mr Hunt has his way. GPs are counting the days and planning their escape routes. The message is don't get ill! Yet this government will not introduce a sugar tax or regulate alcohol sales in a coherent manner. The word that springs to mind is wickedness.
 
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The austerity program is shown up when lack of investment leads to catastrophe.
That was demonstrated with the floods and the cuts on flood defences made a situation even worse that it would have been. So it's fair to suggest similar is happening across other areas of government(incl NHS)

A young colleague had what I thought was a decent idea and that was to drop or refund tuition fees for "useful" degrees.
So if you went on to work for the NHS or teach in our schools you would never have to pay your tuition fees.
 
saintlyhero said:
The austerity program is shown up when lack of investment leads to catastrophe.
That was demonstrated with the floods and the cuts on flood defences made a situation even worse that it would have been. So it's fair to suggest similar is happening across other areas of government(incl NHS)

A young colleague had what I thought was a decent idea and that was to drop or refund tuition fees for "useful" degrees.
So if you went on to work for the NHS or teach in our schools you would never have to pay your tuition fees.
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The point about expenditure isn't true with respect to the NHS budget. That's ring fenced (and increasing). Another ring fenced area is education. There's another but I can't bring it to mind.

What's a "useful" degree? How about one that helps someone to gain the skills to build a business that pays £100M a year in tax, paying for thousands upon thousands of nurses? That would do the country far more good than subsidising a degree for someone because they are going to be a teacher. Why not refund their degree? I'm not arguing those particular details, it's just that I wouldn't trust any system that relied on a subjective judgment of "usefulness".

Vin
 
tiggermaster said:
There certainly is the feeling within the NHS that they are being set up to fail.
Mr Hunt's mantra, supported by our prime minister, that a 7 day a week NHS was part of the Tories Manifesto seems hollow when 5 years earlier Mr Cameron promised 'No top down reorganisation of the NHS', only for Lansley's reforms to land the NHS in it's biggest managerial and administrative mess ever.

I worked for the NHS for 33 years. many of them in senior positions whilst maintaining a clinical input. I know many senior clinicians still working within the NHS or who have recently retired, they either want out, or are pleased to have 'escaped'. A generation ago many would have continued part time post retirement, not least to lend experience when career advancement is not an issue. More and more are making a clean break. We are not training enough nurses, junior doctors will leave in their thousands if Mr Hunt has his way. GPs are counting the days and planning their escape routes. The message is don't get ill! Yet this government will not introduce a sugar tax or regulate alcohol sales in a coherent manner. The word that springs to mind is wickedness.
Click to expand...

Wickedness? Seriously? I have a lowish opinion of politics but I don't feel that many politicians are motivated by "wickedness". Instead I get the impression that most of them (of all stripes) are in what is a fairly horrible business in order to make people's lives better. You might disagree about their selection of solutions but to describe them as "wicked" or "setting up the NHS to fail" doesn't strike me as debate; it's just name-calling. Similarly, I feel that Labour's plans to (say) stop private schooling isn't done through "hatred" or "class war" but because they feel that putting those kids and teachers back into state schools will improve the education system for everyone. Those are examples but I hope you get my point. I genuinely don't see it (on any side).

Vin
 
Onionman said:
The point about expenditure isn't true with respect to the NHS budget. That's ring fenced (and increasing). Another ring fenced area is education. There's another but I can't bring it to mind.

What's a "useful" degree? How about one that helps someone to gain the skills to build a business that pays £100M a year in tax, paying for thousands upon thousands of nurses? That would do the country far more good than subsidising a degree for someone because they are going to be a teacher. Why not refund their degree? I'm not arguing those particular details, it's just that I wouldn't trust any system that relied on a subjective judgment of "usefulness".

Vin
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"useful" degree - I was quoting my colleague who is a lot more practical in his thinking when it comes to careers & skills. So he doesn't see any value in the arts for example.
Behind his idea I felt there was some logic and if a career or at least a good few years service in the public sector would give someone a free further education in return then I don't see that as a bad thing.
The business owner in your analogy would be able to repay their tuition rather comfortably
 
Onionman said:
Wickedness? Seriously? I have a lowish opinion of politics but I don't feel that many politicians are motivated by "wickedness". Instead I get the impression that most of them (of all stripes) are in what is a fairly horrible business in order to make people's lives better. You might disagree about their selection of solutions but to describe them as "wicked" or "setting up the NHS to fail" doesn't strike me as debate; it's just name-calling. Similarly, I feel that Labour's plans to (say) stop private schooling isn't done through "hatred" or "class war" but because they feel that putting those kids and teachers back into state schools will improve the education system for everyone. Those are examples but I hope you get my point. I genuinely don't see it (on any side).

Vin
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Have a look at where Andrew Landsley's business interests are... An advisor to Roche, one of the biggest drugs firm in Europe that brought a whole generation Valium and worse, and advising Blackstone, a private equity firm, on health sector investments.. No conflict of interest there then. Contract out the NHS and then advise investors where to invest.
Furthermore I actually heard a spokesman for the food industry say, 'We are actively looking at ways to reduce sugar in products'. Do they need a civil engineer? Don't put so much f......g sugar in it! Its not difficult! Yet the government doesn't legislate.. Supermarkets and Drink stores sell horrendously cheap alcohol products, all it needs is a minimum price per unit, it might even save a few pubs. Yet the government doesn't legislate... Playing fast and loose with the health service, Listening to friends in the Food and Drinks trades rather than listening to the advice of Public Health Experts strikes me as at best uncaring, but I stand by Wicked
 
greensaint said:
Quite right, except the current government approach will lose the NHS doctors and nurses. Somewhat lost in the fuss over junior Drs is the cancellation of nursing bursaries, bloody madness. It's almost like the tories want the NHS to fail and replace it with a nice, fair system like that in the USA.

I love the fact that MPs want to take away enhanced rates for eves and Sats for the Doctors while they will continue get one if a debate lasts one min past 7.30pm, oh and a meal allowance if it goes to11pm. Time we had a hard working government 24hrs a day, 7 days a week, at flat rate, if you ask me. Actually no, that might just finish me off.
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Don't forget the free taxi home.
 
saintlyhero said:
Once again solutions are lost behind pointless statistical arguments.

The aim for a 7 day a week NHS is correct and no one should argue against it. The weekend effect is real and as per that more or less program. The issue is in the mindset of the public. If you're ill at the weekend, unless you feel it's serious then you're going to wait it out, which may or may not have consequences.
That mindset needs changing and the best way to do that is to advertise that a fully working NHS is available during the week and at weekends.

Of course the most practical way to resolve that issue is to employee more staff. More doctors and more nurses can cover more hours. Not rocket science brain surgery, but then we're back at our old friend money.

Changing the contracts of the junior doctors has clearly back fired and i'm surprised the government have dug their heels in. Unfortunately you have to work hard to find the real problem with the contracts behind the militant lefts dramatic "Save the NHS" banners
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What is a 7 day NHS, where hospitals are concerned?
If it means outpatients being able to have an appointment to see a specialist, then I have no problem with that, but it isn't as achievable as the Government seem to think it is, by simply changing doctors' contracts.
It has to be done by recruiting more doctors AND more support staff - receptionists for the different clinics, staff for blood collecting, giving chemotherapy and radiotherapy, radiographers and so on. The list is endless.
This government seems to think that by taking doctor's out of, for example, Monday and Tuesday rotas, and make them work the weekend, they will provide an improved service, when in reality they will be running a weakened service across four days, instead of just two, as a result of fewer doctors being on the premises for those four days. Appointments covered by those doctors, previously on the Monday and Tuesday will simply be moved to the weekend.
And getting back to the 7 day service. When did anyone, in this country, turn up at a hospital at the weekend, and find a closed sign up?
They are already providing a 7 day service. Just not running outpatients clinics, at the weekend. Unless I have that wrong.
 
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Avoiding football for some reason at the moment, so I though I would use my sunday coffee break to read up on Switzerland. Rock n roll!

I found this very factual website about Switzerlands relationship with the EU and the various political and trade agreements they share.

http://eeas.europa.eu/switzerland/index_en.htm

If we were to vote to leave the EU in June then I think it's important to see what kind of ties and agreements can be made with the EU after we exit. As the referendum debate develops I hope the leave campaign can illustrate what kind of ties it will look to maintain with Europe.

That website also shows EU agreements with nearly every country and region in the world under the "EU in the world" section. This is the link for Norway, which is another European country with a decent economy independent to the EU.

http://eeas.europa.eu/norway/index_en.htm
 
Velcro Roy said:
Ah yes ok,you meant the system for GPs,I was thinking our Gps (where we live)
are bloody marvellous.
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Mine is crazy. You have to go on a waiting list. If the waiting lists goes past 3 weeks you can't go on it. So I registered the one near my parents, but that is just slightly better. It's phone up on the day and hope.
 
Beefy said:
Mine is crazy. You have to go on a waiting list. If the waiting lists goes past 3 weeks you can't go on it. So I registered the one near my parents, but that is just slightly better. It's phone up on the day and hope.
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Sounds to me like you are unlucky . If you feel so poorly that you feel you need an apt ON THE DAY , if you ring first thing , you will get seen .
 
Number 1 Jasper said:
Sounds to me like you are unlucky . If you feel so poorly that you feel you need an apt ON THE DAY , if you ring first thing , you will get seen .
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Nope I have done that before and not got in. I use to go to the walk centre near me, but that closed down. I tend to just not be bothered now, even though I should.
 
My sister and brother in law go to a GP practice in Sholing. When their GP said he was retiring, they asked which doctor, within the practice, they should transfer to.
His response was "Move to another practice".
Bit scary, when an experienced doctor says that, because it shows a lack of confidence in the practice he is departing from.
 
St Badger said:
My sister and brother in law go to a GP practice in Sholing. When their GP said he was retiring, they asked which doctor, within the practice, they should transfer to.
His response was "Move to another practice".
Bit scary, when an experienced doctor says that, because it shows a lack of confidence in the practice he is departing from.
Click to expand...

My GP Emigrated to Oz, had a gutfull of the way things were going. Seems I am one of the lucky ones, in that there are still good GP's at my surgery.
 
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