Off Topic Politics Thread

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Ian Thumwood said:
Imp

I am getting really concerned now. Last week I was told that I had no hope and now you are telling me I am from the dark side !

Good job I am not paranoid !
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The dark side for you is anything that is not full on Corbynite ;) I am pretty much scattered across the spectrum on all sorts of issues, some which people want to pigeonhole as right or far right. Some that people want to pigeonhole as left or far left but in this modern era because I do not 100% tow the line on all issues I will of course be seen as right wing. either / or.

There obviously is no helping you but to your credit you brush off comments and plod on with your beliefs, no matter how echo chambered they may seem to me (may of us.) The world you see is not the world I see, nor can I see where you get some of your predictions from.

But hey ho. Credit to your perseverence :D Unlike Mr Corbyn you do seem to stick to your principles.
 
ImpSaint said:
This is ridiculous. There are more flags at every left wing protest march than anywhere else. The left fly flags as much if not more than "right wingers" do. This talk of association with the union flag and "blood" on the flag yet the Hamas' association with the Palestinian flag and the blood there doesn't count?

And the "pride" flag a flag of unity? Unless you're a lesbian that refuses to date biological men that self identify, or any other kind of TERF, you're not welcome then. That flag has been "stolen" much more than the red and white flag you don't like.

The EU flag is a flag of control to show submission of countries to a supranational technocractic protectionist block that is 100% right wing yet is supported for some reason by the whole of the left that believe in its "nice words of unity."

Comes as no surprise that Ian wants to change the flag. The left want to change everything. Probably would like something solely in red while they read from John McDonnell's copy of the little red book he is so proud to wave and hold up.........."Keep the red flag flying high"

The left was built on flags and identifiers from union's and their banners right through to Labour's own "theme song". But of course they are the right flags.

I have a Portuguese, a Lincolnshire and a St George's flag flying from my top bedroom window ;)
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Everything you have written here is laughable. Keep being offended by the Gay Pride flag, my friend. Absolutely equivalent to the way the British flag has been adopted by the likes of the national front.
 
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Everything you have written here is laughable. Keep being offended by the Gay Pride flag, my friend. Absolutely equivalent to the way the British flag has been adopted by the likes of the national front.
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I didn't say I was offended by the gay pride flag. you've said that. I simply pointed out that your talk of it being a flag representing unity belies the truth when Lesbian groups are banned from Pride marches or attacked by other groups for refusing to toe the line on dating trans women.

There is a lot of internal warfare behind your "symbol of unity" as there often is with any group that talks of unity because they then argue about what they should all be united in and support.

Either / or though ;) You keep adding words into what you read, you're very good at it (and yes I probably am as well.)
 
ImpSaint said:
I didn't say I was offended by the gay pride flag. you've said that. I simply pointed out that your talk of it being a flag representing unity belies the truth when Lesbian groups are banned from Pride marches or attacked by other groups for refusing to toe the line on dating trans women.

Either / or though ;) You keep adding words into what you read, you're very good at it (and yes I probably am as well.)
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Honestly, you need to get out more and stop basing your ideas on X, social media, and Spiked magazine. To in any equivocate Racist Violence with Gay Pride is so wrong I can’t even begin to explain how offensive it is. The only people excluded by Gay Pride are the ones who hate people for their identity.
A person carrying an English flag meets someone carrying a gay flag. Statistically, the likely outcome is not good for the latter.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/news/n...gbtq-people-continues-stonewall-slams-uk-gov-

You seem to have a problem with minority groups and the victims of war- like Palestinians.
 
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Honestly, you need to get out more and stop basing your ideas on X, social media, and Spiked magazine. To in any equivocate Racist Violence with Gay Pride is so wrong I can’t even begin to explain how offensive it is. The only people excluded by Gay Pride are the ones who hate people for their identity.
A person carrying an English flag meets someone carrying a gay flag. Statistically, the likely outcome is not good for the latter.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/news/n...gbtq-people-continues-stonewall-slams-uk-gov-

You seem to have a problem with minority groups and the victims of war- like Palestinians.
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Again I didn't equivocate Racist violence with gay pride. I simply stated that your description of it being a flag of unity ignores all the fighting behind it. You are finding your own mind's interpretations offensive not what I have said.

You need really to read my words and not add your own bits in there. You call me out for it often enough. Stonewall itself has constant internal battles.

I have no problem at all with minority groups. I've been married to a triple qualifier for 20 years and 2 months! A black foreign female. Although I guess she's actually part of the global majority so who knows :D
 
ImpSaint said:
Again I didn't equivocate Racist violence with gay pride. I simply stated that your description of it being a flag of unity ignores all the fighting behind it. You are finding your own mind's interpretations offensive not what I have said.

You need really to read my words and not add your own bits in there. You call me out for it often enough. Stonewall itself has constant internal battles.

I have no problem at all with minority groups. I'm married to a triple qualifier. A black foreign female. Although I guess she's actually part of the global majority so who knows :D
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A right wing portuguese who use to make yourself sound liberal. Show some love for the gays. They are good people.
 
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A right wing portuguese who use to make yourself sound liberal. Show some love for the gays. They are good people.
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100% correct. I chose her and have remained married for 2 decades solely for the purpose of backing up my arguments on internet forums to make out I am "liberal."

I have no problem with "the gays." I worked with one once ;) You are ignoring the disunity in a lot of these movements though. Even Peter Tatchell gets deplatformed regularly because he won't 100% toe the line on "the new rules."

I shall just continue to enjoy life with my "right wing" black foreign woman??? She probably is more right than me though seeing as most of the rest of the world is actually more socially conservative than most British are and of course she hates the EU like most of the European working class that's been shafted do :D
 
ImpSaint said:
100% correct. I chose her and have remained married for 2 decades solely for the purpose of backing up my arguments on internet forums to make out I am "liberal."

I have no problem with "the gays." I worked with one once ;) You are ignoring the disunity in a lot of these movements though. Even Peter Tatchell gets deplatformed regularly because he won't 100% toe the line on "the new rules."

I shall just continue to enjoy life with my "right wing" black foreign woman??? She probably is more right than me though seeing as most of the rest of the world is actually more socially conservative than most British are and of course she hates the EU like most of the European working class that's been shafted do :D
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And what are her opinions on the gays? You worked with one once <laugh>
 
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And what are her opinions on the gays? You worked with one once <laugh>
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The worked with one once was of course a quip to play to the character you have in your mind ;)

I do not know what her opinion of gays are. I have not asked her. I know she has gay relatives though. One who died of Aids about a decade ago and she went over for the funeral.

My point is that there is a fight about who is allowed to stand behind your flag of unity! Gays and Lesbian groups banned from pride marches because they won't comply with various elements of the gender/biology argument etc. You have turned my words into being against people when my point as always was about policy and refusal to see that "inclusive" and "welcoming" might sound like nice words to have for what this "flag of unity" represents but behind those nice words, many people are excluded, are not welcome and far from unity there is disunity and internal fighting over who is to be allowed to march behind the flag!

Trying to make out it is X, Spiked etc that points this out ignores the facts. Lesbian and gay groups are regularly banned from having stalls at Pride marches and even banned from marching in many cases.

This "flag of unity" is no different to any other flag. Like all flags there is warfare behind the scenes as to who owns it and who is allowed to be represented by it. Flags be flags. If you're names not on the list, you're not coming in....Welcoming? Inclusive? you're having a laugh. It is as much 100$ on board or against us either/or as everything else is.

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ImpSaint said:
The worked with one once was of course a quip to play to the character you have in your mind ;)

I do not know what her opinion of gays are. I have not asked her. I know she has gay relatives though. One who died of Aids about a decade ago and she went over for the funeral.

My point is that there is a fight about who is allowed to stand behind your flag of unity! Gays and Lesbian groups banned from pride marches because they won;t comply with various elements of the gender/biology argument etc. You have turned my words into being against people when my point as always was about policy and refusal to see that "inclusive" and "welcoming" might sound like nice words to have for what this "flag of unity" represents but behind those nice words, many people are excluded, are not welcome and far from unity there is disunity and internal fighting over who is to be allowed to march behind the flag!

Trying to make out it is X, Spiked etc that points this out ignores the facts. Lesbian and gay groups are regularly banned from having stalls at Pride marches and even banned from marching in many cases.

This "flag of unity" is no different to any other flag. Like all flags there is warfare behind the scenes as to who owns it and who is allowed to be represented by it. Flags be flags. If you're names not on the list, you're not coming in....Welcoming? Inclusive? you're having a laugh. It is as much 100$ on board or against us either/or as everything else is.

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Citations needed. I have done a search and can find nobody banned from Pride except political parties are right wing anti-trans lobbies. The Pride flag brings in a broad church of people, offering a sense of inclusion for young people. A few political squabbles does not change the unifying factor of the flag.
 
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Citations needed. I have done a search and can find nobody banned from Pride except political parties are right wing anti-trans lobbies. The Pride flag brings in a broad church of people, offering a sense of inclusion for young people. A few political squabbles does not change the unifying factor of the flag.
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So those Lesbian and Gay groups that do not toe the line 100% on the trans argument are now right wing? Not disputing that the Pride flag brings in a broad church of people, just that like everything else it excludes people if they do not comply with their rules.

Your search engine must be rubbish just google it. First page, first search returns. Gay and Lesbian groups banned from having stalls, One where they were not allowed to join the march and instead stood together at a single point where they were then screamed and vilified (like people portray the right wingers doing) by the trans lot as they marched past:
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Unity, everyone welcome, inclusive.............unless you refuse to go out with trans women because you are attracted to biological women.........then you're a TERF so you're not welcome and your name is not on the list. Comply or be excluded. Same old same old. Fighting over a flag.
 
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Ah, a load of old stories disingenuously posted. Which of these groups was banned from Pride? I see one asked to leave after antagonistic behaviour causing fights. And your last story is 4 years old and nothing to do with the Pride Flag.

How much time do you spend getting upset about gay people? Seems like you read a lot about it when it has no impact on your life. And weird all you know about your gay inlaws is AIDS.
 
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Ah, a load of old stories disingenuously posted. Which of these groups was banned from Pride? I see one asked to leave after antagonistic behaviour causing fights. And your last story is 4 years old and nothing to do with the Pride Flag.

How much time do you spend getting upset about gay people? Seems like you read a lot about it when it has no impact on your life. And weird all you know about your gay inlaws is AIDS.
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Again you have inputted your own visions into my words. I spend no time getting upset about gay people. Every post above was debating your idea of "flags of unity" and "inclusiveness etc" which you have then decided means "ImpSaint hates the gheys"

And old or not, It does not mean it has gone away. How can Lesbian groups have nothing to do with the pride flag? Surely Gilbert Baker's flag was originally all about gay and lesbian people? Some of which are not welcomed now because they refuse to comply with the new rules that say they should be also dating biologically born opposite sex folks and admitting them into their groups!

These things are ongoing not old and done with. Lesbian groups are attacked for only allowing biologically born women into their lesbian groups and called TERFs.

All I know about "my gay inlaws" being "AIDS" is because my wife mentioned it to me "in passing" about that time. You seem to think I need to interview everyone I meet, work with, socialise with, am related to, to find out about their sexual preferences? The reason I don't know if a lot of people are gay is because I do not feel the need to ask them what their sexual orientation is. Nor what religion they are. Nor anything else really. Why do I need to know this? What difference should that make? Should I really sit the wife down and grill her on every minute detail that doesn't matter about her family? Should I print off a bunch of questionaires to get people I am acquainted with to fill in?

The reason I know about her uncle that died of Aids is because she mentioned it casually around the time. Not because I needed to know!

As I have said many times before. I read a lot. I do not "spend loads of time reading about gays", I just read! And I read lots of things that "have no impact on my life." Its kinda how you learn about things and developing nuance. By reading things other than a rigid specific subject matter of "only stuff that impacts me, me, me."
 
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Here are what right wing types are using for flags:

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Le Tissier's Laces said:
It's not solely the right by any stretch of the imagination. The left (my god how I hate making everything binary, but as you've started with those labels, I'll continue) rejoices in teaching young people to hate our country and specifically our history. That's a HUGE problem.
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Who or what is this “left” which teaches people to hate their country? Because it’s not something I recognise. Unless you think teaching kids that slavery and imperialism is part of our country’s history, is teaching them to hate their country. It isn’t though; it’s teaching history, the good (like the Suffragettes, the Trade Union movement, the co-operative societies, defeating fascism) and the bad. Or do you want to white wash all that, pretend it never happened?
 
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