That 4% is a projection if loss, not a fact. Not that I wanted to leave the EU, but it is very hard to put a factual number on how much it actually cost us.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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I think, or at least hope, when most people discuss stopping immigration, they are referring to illegal immigration. Stopping all immigration would be awful and like you say, extremely difficult.
I think the majority of people just want anyone coming here to be a benenfit to our economy and society, which lot's of legal immigrants are.
Most people with an issue just don't want to welcome others that will be a net loss to the economy and society. Whether that be through taking more out of the tax system than they put in, using our already struggling health care or committing crime as we have no idea on their criminal history. I don't see why anyone would want that in fact.
What does here illegally mean? Where are these illegal people? What makes them illegal?
The issue for me is that people are not consistent in their demands. If it was not about legal migrants, why so much focus on Pakistanis, who are legal? Also, the crime stats are incredibly dubious- they tend to compare young immigrant communities to an aging British society. That is not a good way to compare. Way too many people are using ‘Christian values’ as a dog whistle for ‘not muslim’.
I think everyone agrees that immigration needs better control, but the undertone to the debate is unsavoury.
From the Times in 2023. A remarkable similarity to our resident extremist's comments posted at the same time. So now we know where he gets his ideology of hate from.
https://archive.md/NqPiU#selection-1529.0-1549.244
Mahmoud Sheleib, a BBC News senior broadcast journalist, appeared to insinuate that young Israelis are fair game to be targeted by Hamas militants because they are akin to soldiers. “[I see] In front of me on Al Jazeera, their so-called civilians are standing armed alongside the police and shooting because they basically don’t have any civilians among the youth. This is what the ignorant often don’t know. I am in favour of fighting them with love, yes, this is the solution.” Followed by a laughing emoji.
He also joked about a woman whose grandmother who had been kidnapped receiving her “inheritance”.
Aya Hossam, a freelance journalist who has previously worked for BBC News Arabic, liked a tweet that also cast doubt on the civilian status of Israelis.
“Every member of the Zionist entity served in the army at some point in his life, whether men or women, and they all had victims of explicit violations,” the message said. “This term ‘civilians’ applies to the animals and pets that live there.”
https://archive.md/NqPiU#selection-1529.0-1549.244
Mahmoud Sheleib, a BBC News senior broadcast journalist, appeared to insinuate that young Israelis are fair game to be targeted by Hamas militants because they are akin to soldiers. “[I see] In front of me on Al Jazeera, their so-called civilians are standing armed alongside the police and shooting because they basically don’t have any civilians among the youth. This is what the ignorant often don’t know. I am in favour of fighting them with love, yes, this is the solution.” Followed by a laughing emoji.
He also joked about a woman whose grandmother who had been kidnapped receiving her “inheritance”.
Aya Hossam, a freelance journalist who has previously worked for BBC News Arabic, liked a tweet that also cast doubt on the civilian status of Israelis.
“Every member of the Zionist entity served in the army at some point in his life, whether men or women, and they all had victims of explicit violations,” the message said. “This term ‘civilians’ applies to the animals and pets that live there.”
Illegal means they either had no prior agreement to enter this country before arriving, or they had permission but have overstayed their visa. This way you can allow entry to people that will benefit society. Such as those in areas of employment we lack workers, or highly skilled professionals such as doctors. People that will benefit our economy and society.
In terms of the "undertone" you mention - I'm under no illusion that there are racists just using this as a socially acceptable way of pushing their agenda. Which is extremely frustrating as then you end up with everyone that wants controlled immigration being labelled as a racist.
Fair point on the crime stats in terms of the age comparison. But I'd also argue that due to the majority of the illegal immigrants being low skilled or not speaking English, they will be significantly more likely to be in poverty - which as result will mean they are more likely to resort to crime.
I think the mistake some are making is assuming that ANYBODY is against controlled migration. We all want an orderly process that is not abused.
However, I do not accept that living under ISIS or the Taliban is not a good enough reason to flee. And what is the world’s second language? English. I would head here too.
Mr Hotdog
I recognise this but wondered if you had experience of how difficult it is to get a legitimate UK Visa ? I got really stressed put sorting holiday , Fiancee and a Spouse visa for my wife. In the end i employed a solicitor as it was so complicated. The costs sailed in £1000s and that included an initial rejection. It is far from easy....even if your income is over the threshold for a spouse visa.
I think Tagalog must be matching English given the number of Filiponos i meet !
Yeah, I see why people come here, and don't blame them for doing something they think will improve their life. That doesn't change the fact that I only want to accept people that will benefit our economy and society. Selfish as that may be I want my tax money spent on services that will benefit me and my loves ones.
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Random question but no, I have no experience of this.
I understand that but if that is the case we have to increase our spending on fixing the issues we have created in the middle east. This is a crisis of our making - and the consequences for us are minuscule in comparison to what the people from those parts of the world have suffered.
The second language of my household, spoken by 50% of the population (of 2).
I wouldn't say it is of our making, no doubt we haven't helped in many cases though. Trouble is, how do you solve problems like the Taliban or ISIS. Aid doesn't work as it doesn't reach the deprivation, and regime change via war, well we tried that.
It's extremely complicated and above most people, certainly mine, paygrade!
OK Thumwood, I hope for your sake the tweet that you copied almost word for word didn't originate from a Hamas source.
??
Sorry but i don't understand your post. I requoted your original post which i assume you had checked.
FWIW i am not on Twitter.
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garysfc
Well-Known Member
Funny, I was thinking same about you & I know you’re not but it was a serious passing thought!
Does that make me the furthest right now then? p.s. I'm not back. lolOs gets banned and the whole board swings back into the centre!
This has more to do with Membership being reduced to £3 at that time whereas it is now £26.50 but don't let facts get in the way of the spin
If it was £26.50 at the time of the leadership election the membership would never have swolen and Corbyn wouldn't have become leader in the first place!