Off Topic Politics Thread

[StJabbo1]

Labour senior advisor:

“We can do to the farmers what Thatcher did to the miners. It’s an industry we could do without. We don’t need small farmers.”

Just to clarify in case anyone should think John McTernan is involved with the Government today. He was Former Director of Political Operations to Tony Blair from 2005 to 2007 and is now or was recently a political strategist for BCW a communications agency. More than a bit of a twat to come out with such a comment.

 

[Osvaldorama]

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Labour are a ****ing disaster

 

[tomw24]

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Labour are a ****ing disaster

Really? A rise of 0.3% isn't really a cause for concern. Besides, that was in the months before the budget was announced. I'm anti-Labour, but I can't find anything there to have a go at Labour for.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Really? A rise of 0.3% isn't really a cause for concern. Besides, that was in the months before the budget was announced. I'm anti-Labour, but I can't find anything there to have a go at Labour for.

This is just the start of the trend. Her disastrous budget will lead to a lot of lay offs.

 

[Archers Road]

Labour senior advisor:

“We can do to the farmers what Thatcher did to the miners. It’s an industry we could do without. We don’t need small farmers.”

Pulled out of your arse again Os?

 

[tomw24]

This is just the start of the trend. Her disastrous budget will lead to a lot of lay offs.

But the stuff from the Budget doesn't actually start happening until next April. Now, some companies may take action before that but we won't get a full picture of the effects until next year. I have serious concerns as well but it's too early to make any accurate judgement.

 

[StJabbo1]

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Labour are a ****ing disaster

Really? A rise of 0.3% isn't really a cause for concern. Besides, that was in the months before the budget was announced. I'm anti-Labour, but I can't find anything there to have a go at Labour for.

This is just the start of the trend. Her disastrous budget will lead to a lot of lay offs.

The Gammon

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talking

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[Archers Road]

This is just the start of the trend. Her disastrous budget will lead to a lot of lay offs.

If I remember rightly, you predicted the budget would cause a stock market crash of Truss like proportions, runaway inflation, rising interest rates, and spiralling government bond yields. None of your predictions have so far come to pass, so why don’t you, for the sake of your own dwindling credibility, get back in your box until you finally get something right?

 

[StJabbo1]

Early kick off today.

 

[tomw24]

If I remember rightly, you predicted the budget would cause a stock market crash of Truss like proportions, runaway inflation, rising interest rates, and spiralling government bond yields. None of your predictions have so far come to pass, so why don’t you, for the sake of your own dwindling credibility, get back in your box until you finally get something right?

Yes but the Budget doesn't come into effect until next April, so any impacts won't be known until the measures actually come into effect. This applies to both sides of the argument.

 

[Archers Road]

Yes but the Budget doesn't come into effect until next April, so any impacts won't be known until the measures actually come into effect. This applies to both sides of the argument.

Yes, sure; we have to wait and see what the long term effect of Labour’s fiscal policy will be. But the markets didn’t wait before reacting to the Truss/Kwarteng budget, so Rachel Reeves can already claim considerably more credibility than her predecessors.

Many right wing commentators in the press predicted that Reeves’ budget would unravel in a similar way to Kwarteng’s, btw. - and Os was quick to echo them. But it turns out Labour had at least done their preliminary sums well enough to calm nerves in the City (something Gordon Brown always achieved also btw).

 

[tomw24]

Yes, sure; we have to wait and see what the long term effect of Labour’s fiscal policy will be. But the markets didn’t wait before reacting to the Truss/Kwarteng budget, so Rachel Reeves can already claim considerably more credibility than her predecessors. Many right wing commentators in the press predicted that Reeves’ budget would unravel in a similar way to a Kwarteng’s, btw. But it turns out Labour had at least done their preliminary sums well enough to calm nerves in the City (something Gordon Brown always achieved also btw).

True, but that was a catastrophic ****fest so not difficult for Reeves to claim more credibility there. With Labour's Budget, I have my concerns, particularly about the NI rises for employers. But I'll wait and see.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

Like I said. Literally we could probably say we have been at war with most countries at some point in our history. My point is that it isn't a case of "we caused your stress, you are in, or Nope not our fault, you're out.

So the war or (our fault) thing doesn't matter a jot. If someone is fleeing persecution in any country then they have a valid case for asylum, whether it was "our fault" or not. But it has to be done by legal avenues and not people passing through an innumerable amount of safe countries because they have decided that the UK is the country they want to live in.

Wanting to live in the UK is not the same as seeking asylum. They could have applied for asylum in any of those countries they passed through.

Is there an argument that we don't take "our fair share" of asylum seekers? Yes I think that is a viable argument but there are a lot of talking heads in the discussion that are not interested in reality about having a serious discussion about actual asylum seekers and prefer to disingenuously conflate illegal migration with genuine asylum seekers.

I think if we could get past this stumbling block of dishonest politicians weaponising this (and many other) issue(s) then we could actually have a genuine discussion about whether we are really doing our fair share for people who are genuinely in fear for their lives and require safety.

But when people have travelled from the Eastern border of Europe/EU to get to the French border then it is pretty obvious that people are actually (just) not seeking asylum. They could have applied at any point in their journey. They are seeking a life in the UK. And yes I would concede that of them some will have left their country genuinely seeking asylum but want it to be in the UK.

I can also quite understand as pointed out above that if I were young I might like to move to a country for a better life but I'm pretty sure that would descend into Chaos numberswise if that were the policy and would make the current "overload" look like a drip in comparison.

I'm not against us taking more genuine asylum seekers. Whether they apply from their own country or any of the safe countries they reach, and I'm not against any discussion on the subject of if we are really taking our fair share of asylum seekers.

On the doctors/lawyers......Surely Doctors would be able to apply through legal routes and be fast-tracked in? Why are they driving ubers and not being signed up to the NHS? I hear they need people. We don't need any more lawyers though. lol

Lots of good points there
Bearing in mind also that I believe 75% of refugees settle in neighbouring countries
There is currently an international refugee crisis and we need to strive for international solutions, but meanwhile start to fix our own problems

 

[......loading......]

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This is the last few months of the unemployment chart in the UK. When Labour came in it was at 4.4%. It then dropped to 4.0. It has gone back up 4.3%. I don't think Labour can clam the .4% drop as anything to do with them and I don't think the .3% rise is theirs either.

That said, it is still a .1% drop in unemployment under Labour, so a weird kneejerk.

 

[Osvaldorama]

If I remember rightly, you predicted the budget would cause a stock market crash of Truss like proportions, runaway inflation, rising interest rates, and spiralling government bond yields. None of your predictions have so far come to pass, so why don’t you, for the sake of your own dwindling credibility, get back in your box until you finally get something right?

You’re inventing things that I said. All I’ve said is it will be a disaster.

Also I get a lot more right than you. Just in the last couple of years on here I’ve been right about:
- Lockdowns caused more damage than good
- Covid vaccines were harmful
- Climate change is a scam
- Biden was mentally unfit to be president for years
- Trump will win the election

Did you buy bitcoin when I told you to? Maybe you’d be less miserable if you were wealthy

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

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This is the last few months of the unemployment chart in the UK. When Labour came in it was at 4.4%. It then dropped to 4.0. It has gone back up 4.3%. I don't think Labour can clam the .4% drop as anything to do with them and I don't think the .3% rise is theirs either.

That said, it is still a .1% drop in unemployment under Labour, so a weird kneejerk.

Yep exactly! What you have posted is the start of a trend as Os put it. One month that he gave is not a trend!

Britannica Dictionary definition of TREND
: a general direction of change : a way of behaving, proceeding, etc., that is developing and becoming more common

 

[shoot_spiderman]

True, but that was a catastrophic ****fest so not difficult for Reeves to claim more credibility there. With Labour's Budget, I have my concerns, particularly about the NI rises for employers. But I'll wait and see.

But the catastrophic ****fest has affected Reeves options, and this is definitely NOT a ****fest, so from that to this is an enormous improvement and deserves credit even though we need to reserve full judgement

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

You’re inventing things that I said. All I’ve said is it will be a disaster.

Also I get a lot more right than you. Just in the last couple of years on here I’ve been right about:
- Lockdowns caused more damage than good
- Covid vaccines were harmful
- Climate change is a scam
- Biden was mentally unfit to be president for years
- Trump will win the election

Did you buy bitcoin when I told you to? Maybe you’d be less miserable if you were wealthy

Whilst I dispute a lot of the above anyway, maybe we should also look at what you got wrong. If you put 1000 things out there and a few are nearly right, it doesnt make you Nostradamus.


(BTW, IMO, the last two there you were right about only)

 

[Osvaldorama]

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This is the last few months of the unemployment chart in the UK. When Labour came in it was at 4.4%. It then dropped to 4.0. It has gone back up 4.3%. I don't think Labour can clam the .4% drop as anything to do with them and I don't think the .3% rise is theirs either.

That said, it is still a .1% drop in unemployment under Labour, so a weird kneejerk.

Just the start.

When the NI rises fully hit, there will be more layoffs for sure. Wouldn’t surprise me if we enter a recession.. although I hope that is being too pessimistic

 

[......loading......]

You’re inventing things that I said. All I’ve said is it will be a disaster.

Also I get a lot more right than you. Just in the last couple of years on here I’ve been right about:
- Lockdowns caused more damage than good
- Covid vaccines were harmful
- Climate change is a scam
- Biden was mentally unfit to be president for years
- Trump will win the election

Did you buy bitcoin when I told you to? Maybe you’d be less miserable if you were wealthy

So you are wealthy! That surprises me to be honest…