Off Topic Politics Thread
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Which one is most likely to give us the old Tory party back? The Brexit Lite Torys were not fit for office.
Hopefully they can arrange things so that only you and @My name is Billy have to pay more taxes
What a strange thing to wish upon someone. I can only hope you were trying to be humorous, but I'm pretty sure you weren't.
I wouldn't wish anyone financial burdens, or any type of burdens.
Hope you have a prosperous future, Archers
Old Tories? I'm sure you mean the not so old Tories. Cleverley would've given nothing. He appears "the most sane" to people not really watching because he has held some of the biggest jobs, without ever doing anything.......so people think he is competent because doing nothing means no gaffes. Long time member of the ERG. Supported Truss last time round. lol. shows how little people actually know about him!
Jenrick is probably the closest of the 4 to the so called "one nation Tories" being pretty left (in Tory terms) remainer and Blairite. This recent discovery of being "right wing" hasn't fooled Tory members who call him "Honest Bob" due to both his past scandals and because of this sudden change of face.
So as you are obviously talking about not so "old Tories" in terms of pro EU and all that, Tugenhadt was your man closely followed by Jenrick and then Cleverley.
Old Tories in my terms, meaning EU at arms length in trade terms only? Fiscal stuff first, succesful business benefits workers more than hammering business etc? back to work, get on yer bike? common sense returning? More practical adult education like (real) apprenticeships and less wasted Uni that is purely to keep as many young off the unemployed numbers as possible That's what you will see with Kemi. Similar to Thatcher, she has 4 years in opposition, very strong character, not bending with the wind like all the others. She could emulate Thatcher..........if the past 15 years of Tories ****ing up had not done so much damage but she is WYSIWYG. Something refreshing in all the fakery of modern politics.
But yeah old Tories = Thatcher. 100% behind that.
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"As unpopular as Nigel Farage", not bad going after 3 months. Mind you, I can't see Farage will like being compared to Starmer.
Keir Starmer now as unpopular as Nigel Farage
Matthew SmithHead of Data Journalism
Politics & current affairs
October 08, 2024, 12:54 PM GMT+1
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More than six in ten Britons now dislike the prime minister
After a bruising few weeks dominated by a donations scandal and rows over the means testing of winter fuel payments for pensioners, Keir Starmer’s favourability rating has plummeted to the lowest level since he took over as Labour leader in 2020, with a net score of -36.
Currently only 27% of Britons have a positive opinion of the prime minister – the lowest since September 2021 – while 63% have a negative opinion, the highest to date.
Keir Starmer is now as unpopular as Nigel Farage, of whom 28% have a positive view and 63% a negative one (for a net score of -35). While more people have a “very unfavourable” view of the Reform UK leader (49%, to Starmer’s 41%), a greater number also have a “very favourable” opinion of Farage (10% vs 4%).*
Keir Starmer now as unpopular as Nigel Farage
Matthew SmithHead of Data Journalism
Politics & current affairs
October 08, 2024, 12:54 PM GMT+1
Share
Printable version
More than six in ten Britons now dislike the prime minister
After a bruising few weeks dominated by a donations scandal and rows over the means testing of winter fuel payments for pensioners, Keir Starmer’s favourability rating has plummeted to the lowest level since he took over as Labour leader in 2020, with a net score of -36.
Currently only 27% of Britons have a positive opinion of the prime minister – the lowest since September 2021 – while 63% have a negative opinion, the highest to date.
Keir Starmer is now as unpopular as Nigel Farage, of whom 28% have a positive view and 63% a negative one (for a net score of -35). While more people have a “very unfavourable” view of the Reform UK leader (49%, to Starmer’s 41%), a greater number also have a “very favourable” opinion of Farage (10% vs 4%).*
What a strange thing to wish upon someone. I can only hope you were trying to be humorous, but I'm pretty sure you weren't.
I wouldn't wish anyone financial burdens, or any type of burdens.
Hope you have a prosperous future, Archers
Thought you had a sense of humour Billy, did you have to sell it to pay your tax bill?
Remember, don’t put anything in blue as this isn’t a comedy board.
Didn’t need to do that for my tax bill, just for your welfare one instead
Hopefully they can arrange things so that only you and @My name is Billy have to pay more taxes
Classic champagne socialist. The politics of envy rearing its head again
Classic social media right-winger. The politics of empty one-liners rearing its head again.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't mind paying income tax, and due to a change in role I'll have to pay higher rate tax on a bit of it. That seems correct to me as I can afford that tax.
Why is tax seen as a bad thing?
Is it mainly to do with how we see our taxes spent or wasted that turns people against tax, or is it deeper than that and the idea of any kind of tax is seen as wrong?
Why is tax seen as a bad thing?
Is it mainly to do with how we see our taxes spent or wasted that turns people against tax, or is it deeper than that and the idea of any kind of tax is seen as wrong?
Most people don't mind paying tax but its too easy to focus on simple equations of rich pay more without ever understanding that does not necessarily mean more tax comes into the pot.
Its like running a machine at 100% in theory will give you more output.........but in reality running it at 75% will probably deliver more in the long term, with less breakdowns or stoppages........yet when I worked in food factories I was continually disciplined for running machines at lower than 95% by loony production managers that despite getting more output insisted the machines be run at no lower than 95% and you can guess the results. Quite literally I was in trouble for getting better results than they could achieve because of their pig ignorance and crazy logic! And up held by managers as well. Teams used to love it when they saw me run the machine because despite getting more out, it was a calm, smooth well paced day with good numbers. When someone else was there they knew it would be a day of stop start and probably compulsory overtime to reach targets. But hey ho, I woke up one morning after another disciplinary and decided I was not going back anymore and went back into offices earning more money a week later.
Tax is the same. we were taking in more tax when the higher rate was lower. raising it is a "shoot yourself in the foot" event that creates create headlines that has people nodding their heads but achieves the opposite in the end.
Look at the 70s. uber tax levels on the rich, economically we were bankrupt. Thatcher period drastically reduced the high rate of tax, same with Reagan. economies boomed. Blair reduced the top rate. It was only raised in the last months of New Labour and then of course they called out the Tories for lowering it again.
Boom times have co-incided with lowering those rates. Simplistic vision but at the end of the day thats how it is.
If you want headlines then "Rolling Stones ran away from the UK to avoid taxes." The truth? top rate of tax was so high that they could not earn enough to pay back taxes they owed so they left the UK to pay less tax and that enabled them to repay what they owed. People are not interested in truths, just the headlines.
My wife stupidly went back to work half way through a tax year in 2022! In a flip 6 months we went from qualifying for tax credits to a 2 earner household and HMRC demanded a £4500 repayment of "overpayment of tax credits." Yes, we went from a £9000 yearly tax credit payment to zero because she now earned an extra £10000 in the latter 6 months of that year. She basically worked for 6 months for £1000 and we are now repaying that £4500 back.
Not really a problem. I am paying it off over 12 months. However its annoying that it wasn't a case of "you don't qualify anymore, no more money" it is annoying that she works for 6 months for £1000 more than we were already getting. But I am paying it.
Rich people actually pay the vast majority of the tax pot already. raising it and raising it is just asking for a return to the "good old days." They should close loopholes not simplistically hammer the rich. It only ends up hurting those lower down in the end.
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Ask yourself what services do you want the state to provide:
Welfare for those incapable of work and the old - what level is acceptable?
Defense - our borders only or be involved in multi-agency activities.
Education - At a competitive level of our peers or just basic for those that can't pay for it.
Health - Fore front of Medical research and free for all at the point of service in facilities that are safe to use, or pay for the use.
Diplomacy and aid - stop issues such as illegal migration before they leave their lands and seen as leaders, or pull back from world matters.
Energy and Conservation - be self reliant and act as leaders in advances to safe guard the ecosystem, or do what we have always done and exploit world resources.
When you ask people what services they want and need, the majority want a good level, why wouldn't they. Then they are asked to pay for it. That is where the arguments start.
We know all the arguments about bureaucratic waste, or private sector profiteering, pet projects and ideological craziness. At the end of the day these services cost a lot of money, and sure it can be better managed - a never ending story.
This is all not helped by complex tax laws and loopholes - low (relatively) tax rates (to attract foreign investment and migrant labour).
What needs to happen is for the governments to justify their decisions and communicate that more effectively, in the terms of the services they provide and how much it is costing.
Welfare for those incapable of work and the old - what level is acceptable?
Defense - our borders only or be involved in multi-agency activities.
Education - At a competitive level of our peers or just basic for those that can't pay for it.
Health - Fore front of Medical research and free for all at the point of service in facilities that are safe to use, or pay for the use.
Diplomacy and aid - stop issues such as illegal migration before they leave their lands and seen as leaders, or pull back from world matters.
Energy and Conservation - be self reliant and act as leaders in advances to safe guard the ecosystem, or do what we have always done and exploit world resources.
When you ask people what services they want and need, the majority want a good level, why wouldn't they. Then they are asked to pay for it. That is where the arguments start.
We know all the arguments about bureaucratic waste, or private sector profiteering, pet projects and ideological craziness. At the end of the day these services cost a lot of money, and sure it can be better managed - a never ending story.
This is all not helped by complex tax laws and loopholes - low (relatively) tax rates (to attract foreign investment and migrant labour).
What needs to happen is for the governments to justify their decisions and communicate that more effectively, in the terms of the services they provide and how much it is costing.
I never really liked Champagne - it's basically posh cider imo - but have no idea why the prospect of Socialists drinking it is so disturbing to right wingers.
It’s because it’s stealing.
It’s also wrong because it assumed that government bureaucrats can spend money more wisely than the private market can. And that’s simply not the case.
This is especially true now where the entire system is corrupt and broken beyond repair.
Almost everything we pay taxes for is a shambles. The idea of paying more tax for these horrific public “services” is sickening tbh
Taster for HIGNFY tonight roasting some Tory harridan claiming the abominable Johnson was in some way or form a competent prime minister.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/crBbGEBDUwDKSh6Z/
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/crBbGEBDUwDKSh6Z/
I used to really enjoy HIGNFY but it lost its edge a couple of decades ago, probably not long after Angus Deayton was ousted. For a while the odd guest host was good but these days its just boring.
I've actually been watching headliners on GB News but only when Lewis Shaffer is on because he is ridiculously funny whereas most of the other comedians on there aren't very funny. Lewis Shaffer is well worth the flick though. see if he's on, if he isn't I put something else on.