Oh wow! You caught me! **** Labour with no time machine back to the winter of 2022! Those oily, time-stuck arseholes!
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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The way i see is either side would have probably dropped the Winter Fuel Allowance. The issue here is that this board leans left and the left have done it, so there is a need to justify it. If it was a right leaning board and the Tories did it we would be in the same boat.
It is just semantics. We have a black hole of money that needs to be filled, mainly due to bad Tory decisions and policies. What ever way Labour do it won't be popular with some. If they need to make tough decisions and be unpopular then so be it. All governments need to make the unpopular decisions early in their tenure, so that by the time the next election comes around they are in a better state to be elected. It is better to be popular in the polls late in the term rather than early. That is just politics.
This from a right leaning board member.
It is just semantics. We have a black hole of money that needs to be filled, mainly due to bad Tory decisions and policies. What ever way Labour do it won't be popular with some. If they need to make tough decisions and be unpopular then so be it. All governments need to make the unpopular decisions early in their tenure, so that by the time the next election comes around they are in a better state to be elected. It is better to be popular in the polls late in the term rather than early. That is just politics.
This from a right leaning board member.
This. My point is there is nothing hypocritical about doing what has to be done. And the moaning from the right-leaners here - as if somehow Labour have to have turned the world into a socialist utopia in the first 6 months of power or they are liars and failures - is ironic since some of these same people used the term "remoaners" incessantly for 5 years after Brexit.
No. The words "We will save families hundreds of pounds on their bills, not just in the short term, but for good." appear in the Labour manifesto. They're in the energy section if you want to check.
When someone makes a statement along the lines of "I will do not just X but also Y" they are saying they will do both X and Y. So when the Labour manifesto says "We will save families hundreds of pounds on their bills, not just in the short term, but for good." it means they will save families hundreds of pounds on their bills in the short term and apparently forever (although saying something will be "for good" is absurd). When people's bills go up by 10% a few months later that is very obviously not saving them hundreds of pounds a year in the short term.
So, you are a realist. What should they have done? Because you, yourself, are clear that the rises were "a few months later".
I don't see the short term as six months later. I see it as the first term of office. I also see as "for good" meaning they will make changes which embed fairer systems beyond this term. You can read it your way if you are determined to find fault and misery. I guess that is your choice. Realistically, would anyone sane expect the entire financial landscape of a nation ravaged by Tory incompetence for over a decade to be fixed in 6 months?
I guess you would have to be super in love with Labour to see it that way. I mean, you would have to think they were the political GOATs to see it remotely that way. I don't think anybody I know saw it that way, so maybe I need to get behind Labour a little harder.
A heads up for those who travel in the EU/Schengen Zone. After many months/years of border security changes being discussed, it seems like the dates of implementation have been decided. For those who fear Big Brother, I have highlighted a sentence that might give you sleepless nights.
I would presume that this will cause delays whilst fingerprints are taken, so expect queuing to be the norm when visiting most of the EU.
Edit. ETIAS, the visa waiver system, is due to start in May 2025.
There are two upcoming upgrades to border security systems for the EU Schengen zone countries, of which Spain is one. The first is the EES system, which is reported to be starting on November 10th this year. This system will register the person’s name, type of travel document, biometric data (fingerprints and captures facial images), as well as the date and place of entry and exit. In addition, the system will also record entry refusals. The data will be gathered at land crossings, seaports, and air and then will be shared with the relevant government agencies. It will require all non-EU arrivals (that are not legal residents) to have four fingerprints scanned and a photograph taken on first entry into the bloc — biometrics that will be verified on each subsequent entry. Anyone who overstays or exceeds the 90-day rule could face a fine or ban on their future travel......What happens if you refuse to have your fingerprints scanned or a photo of your face taken? As a non-EU national travelling for a short stay, if you refuse to provide your biometric data, you will be denied entry into the territory of European countries using EES. The full details of this system and the following one of the ETIAS visa WAIVER are in the link in an easy to read factual format. Our thanks go to the website of Benidorm Seriously, who are licenced by the regional government in Valencia to give travel advice and information. More on Fresh Radio Spain, today 8-10am.
https://www.benidormseriously.com/changes-to-eu-travel?
I would presume that this will cause delays whilst fingerprints are taken, so expect queuing to be the norm when visiting most of the EU.
Edit. ETIAS, the visa waiver system, is due to start in May 2025.
There are two upcoming upgrades to border security systems for the EU Schengen zone countries, of which Spain is one. The first is the EES system, which is reported to be starting on November 10th this year. This system will register the person’s name, type of travel document, biometric data (fingerprints and captures facial images), as well as the date and place of entry and exit. In addition, the system will also record entry refusals. The data will be gathered at land crossings, seaports, and air and then will be shared with the relevant government agencies. It will require all non-EU arrivals (that are not legal residents) to have four fingerprints scanned and a photograph taken on first entry into the bloc — biometrics that will be verified on each subsequent entry. Anyone who overstays or exceeds the 90-day rule could face a fine or ban on their future travel......What happens if you refuse to have your fingerprints scanned or a photo of your face taken? As a non-EU national travelling for a short stay, if you refuse to provide your biometric data, you will be denied entry into the territory of European countries using EES. The full details of this system and the following one of the ETIAS visa WAIVER are in the link in an easy to read factual format. Our thanks go to the website of Benidorm Seriously, who are licenced by the regional government in Valencia to give travel advice and information. More on Fresh Radio Spain, today 8-10am.
https://www.benidormseriously.com/changes-to-eu-travel?
The energy project is in its infancy, so I have no idea why you are writing it off. The fact that when Reeves made that statement she had no knowledge of the £22 billion black hole makes any short term prediction in 2022 kind of meaningless, wouldn’t you say?
What they should do is stick to what they say they'll do. Your interpretation of a simple statement about reducing bills is bizarre. It's simple English and means they will make people's bills lower. Short term means a short period of time, not years. I don't know anybody who would use short term to mean 'at some point in the next five years' when talking about their energy bills.
I'm not talking about "the entire financial landscape of a nation", it's a discussion about one policy decision, and I've already said I don't much care about the policy itself, but to say you'll do one thing and then do the opposite is awful. The links below tell their own story.
The link below is a story from a local paper about Keir Starmer meeting an elderly woman called Joyce Hays in Dewsbury in 2022. There's a video where she tells him she doesn't put the heating on because she's worried about the bills.
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...fford-to-turn-my-heating-on-for-weeks-3637231
This is a video from May this year where Keir Starmer talks about the visit and the "awful position" she was in.
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This link is an article where Joyce Hays says Keir Starmer promised her he would look after pensioners and where she confirms she will no longer be getting the winter fuel allowance.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/oth...-his-winter-fuel-raid-let-me-down/ar-AA1pEoi6
Behaving like this is appalling. The only question is whether this change sticks with Labour in the way tuition fees stuck with the Lib Dems.
Appalling? No, giving billions to your mates for dodgy PPE contracts is appalling. They haven't even come close to breaking a manifesto pledge - and yet they are "appalling". You were going on about how everything Labour said would turn out to be lies before the election and you made your mind up then.
Short term is not 6 months after the election when we have no money in the bank. You don't really think this is appalling at all. If you do, you must have been apoplectic with incandescent, spitting, furious rage over the last lot!
I haven't written anything off. Labour made a promise to lower energy bills in the short term and energy bills are rising in the short term. That's the point. I'm quoting the 2024 Labour manifesto.
I'm not interested in the £22 billion "black hole" as an excuse. Even if you accept the "black hole" that doesn't require the government to make this specific change.
Laughable. Meeting a pensioner who can't put her heating on because of the cost, promising her you'll do something about it, using that meeting for your own political gain and then doing the opposite of what you said by removing her fuel allowance is appalling.
Can you stop lying about the manifesto?
"Establish GB Energy - headquartered in Scotland - to build clean and cheap homegrown power for the British people. We will set out its strategic remit and investment framework as well as prepare its initial portfolio of energy projects - from new nuclear, to Local Power, and deploying leading edge technologies"
The early goal is clearly this. All laid out in the manifesto.
"Labour will take up to £1,400 off the annual household bill and £53 billion off energy bills for businesses by 2030, by delivering a cheaper, zero-carbon electricity system by 2030."
This is the timeframe in the manifesto. These are the words of the manifesto.
I have read the manifesto and cannot find your quote at all. Can you link to it?
I guess lying about how much money is in the government coffers is downright evil then.
Well, in that case we may as well shut the board down, as there is nothing else to see.
The leftie moaners on here spent 14 years deriding literally everything they could about the right.
I initially came on to this thread a fews years back with the view to educate myself, as I have never given a **** about politics - nor truly understood it.
That was the worst mistake I made in years.
I may, like you, have a right leaning view, but my irk on here was the harsh, vitriolic attacks that were occurring daily, or weekly at the least - these being of a very personal nature. I found it pretty disgusting to be fair, and was (although maybe I should not have been) disturbed that people could take things so seriously and post things like that.
Since Labour lied their way into power, a few people have rightly provided good natured information about lies and corruption - no one has gone anywhere near the over the top personal attacks that used to come (from memory so apologies if I get this slightly wrong) - deleted as dont want people pissing their knickers - but you know who they are...
The attacks, and I am sure you recall as I am sure we had a DM or two about it, were horrific, and relentless.
So my discomfort about the way people did this, to which I called them out for, led me to be derided into appear to be a Boris loveboy, Tory fan boy etc.
Most of my posts are so tongue in cheek and light hearted, and I recall refusing to use blue ink as that was like asking a comedian to state they were telling a joke every time they told one, that if people took them seriously then more fool them for taking this stuff way to seriously.
So excuse me if, now the shoe is on the other foot, that we can call is just semantics - the left took this waaaay too far over the 14 years.
And if anyone is offended by my post, go ban me or go **** yourselves - people should have a proper look at some of the stuff they have posted over the last number of years.
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The excess deaths caused by austerity, the lack of preparedness for the pandemic and the PPE scandal is downright evil.
Feel free to post examples of these offensive, horrific and relentless attacks. I can't be arsed to look back for the vitriolic rhetoric from the Johnsonian Trumpettes on righteous right which, in my not at all humble opinion, far outweighed posts from the peace loving bearded kaftan and sandal wearing Guardian readers on the left. FYI I'd probably **** myself if I could get round to it.
"Billy the Priest said: ↑
I'd love to be you, having everything sussed out about people.
You know what, It doesnt make much difference to me how you see things, but you do seem to be hanging on something to have a pop at me, well done you, big man"
Yet another sarcastic reply from someone desperate for attention.
That was a depressing deep-dive into the post history of someone who has been consistently claiming he "doesn't insult people" and is "being bullied" for 5 years straight.
I've just spent half an hour reading 5 years of posts. I think he should read his own post history.
Rachel Reeves expenses claims for accommodation in the last 4 years in opposition.
Nothing underhand, and I would guess nearly all MPs do the same, but how nice of the public to fund the CWP thief her utility bills. No chance of her getting cold in those years.
Or now because she won't have to worry about utility bills now she lives in a heavily subsidised No11 or the grace and favour 21 room Dorneywood Manor.
The house that she and her husband own in London? That's been rented out while she's got the use of publicly funded No11. Yes, she's a landlord!
Looks like Rachel doing pretty well for herself thanks very much.
Rachel Reeves
Labour MP for Leeds West and Pudsey and has been an MP since 6 May 2010
2023 to 2024
Council tax
£1,808.39
Landline phone & internet - rental & usage
£457.90
Rent
£13,680.00
Utilities
£1,598.11
2022 to 2023
Council tax
£1,860.22
Landline phone & internet - rental & usage
£711.81
Rent
£14,220.00
Utilities
£834.96
2021 to 2022
Council tax
£1,799.75
Landline phone & internet - rental & usage
£655.21
Rent
£13,080.00
Utilities
£446.46
2020 to 2021
Council tax
£1,711.15
Landline phone & internet - rental & usage
£577.39
Rent
£10,900.00
Utilities
£613.54
Nothing underhand, and I would guess nearly all MPs do the same, but how nice of the public to fund the CWP thief her utility bills. No chance of her getting cold in those years.
Or now because she won't have to worry about utility bills now she lives in a heavily subsidised No11 or the grace and favour 21 room Dorneywood Manor.
The house that she and her husband own in London? That's been rented out while she's got the use of publicly funded No11. Yes, she's a landlord!
Looks like Rachel doing pretty well for herself thanks very much.
Rachel Reeves
Labour MP for Leeds West and Pudsey and has been an MP since 6 May 2010
2023 to 2024
Council tax
£1,808.39
Landline phone & internet - rental & usage
£457.90
Rent
£13,680.00
Utilities
£1,598.11
2022 to 2023
Council tax
£1,860.22
Landline phone & internet - rental & usage
£711.81
Rent
£14,220.00
Utilities
£834.96
2021 to 2022
Council tax
£1,799.75
Landline phone & internet - rental & usage
£655.21
Rent
£13,080.00
Utilities
£446.46
2020 to 2021
Council tax
£1,711.15
Landline phone & internet - rental & usage
£577.39
Rent
£10,900.00
Utilities
£613.54