Sorry. thats the fault of people like me that dilute the Aryan brand mix and bring up mixed race kids ;(
Although I do agree on the woke bit albeit "Woke mind virus" sounds a bit like some Trumpist slogan.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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Although I do agree on the woke bit albeit "Woke mind virus" sounds a bit like some Trumpist slogan.
You do realise the whole of the left activism argument at the moment is based on imported US activism where a lot of it does not actually crossover to here? Do you think we have George Floyd events here? The US (it seems) has them daily or weekly but over here we just get complaints about "stop and search" in areas where there is a knife crime or gang problem.
Most of the right agree with you on Rwanda. They want immigration controlled but the whole idea of Rwanda was laughed at from the beginning. Only the mad are still clinging to it.
It doesn't help that when illegal migration is brought up that "what about the NHS" is the answer. Its ridiculous. Is the NHS emplying illegal immigrants? Or are they employing appropriately skilled legal migrants? no-one wants to discuss the issue, instead just batting it off and attacking anyone who asks the question when the reality is that virtually all illegal migrants have passed through many safe countries on their way. they are not seeking asylum from war zones. They are seeking to get into the UK by hook or crook. And the EU (and people like Macron) is happy to ignore the fact that they have passed through all these countries and let those in our country attack people for questioning the issue!
It is just insane how these "intelligent" politicos and media folks can answer questions about illegal immigration by merging the legal migrants into the equation.
And then the whole "we are a nation of immigrants" one from Leave.Remain days in which they seem to have forgotten that was because people invaded this island, several times! They weren't Roman, Germanic, Norse and Norman immigrants. They were invadors that colonised! Strange when the word invaders is criticised heavily when used in the current context and then examples of ancient invasions are sused by the same mouths to present us as an island of immigrants.
I
I don’t think people’s opinions on that issue are encompassed “the whole left activist argument”. Nor do I really think those (seemingly mostly on the left) who oppose Israel’s actions are taking views imported from the US. Indeed the pro-Israel argument is far more likely to have been imported from the US than the anti-Israel one. Which aligns with the focus of media consumption I was pointing out - seemingly being so US dominated that we have a British person raving about people sitting in their mum’s basements - such a blatant Americanism that I’m surprised effort was even made to change “mom” to “mum”
I don’t disagree. It baffles me how much traction BLM got here. Not convinced that is particularly related to the ravings of Os - which were initially in response to posts about Israel and Gaza.
I don’t think people’s opinions on that issue are encompassed “the whole left activist argument”. Nor do I really think those (seemingly mostly on the left) who oppose Israel’s actions are taking views imported from the US. Indeed the pro-Israel argument is far more likely to have been imported from the US than the anti-Israel one. Which aligns with the focus of media consumption I was pointing out - seemingly being so US dominated that we have a British person raving about people sitting in their mum’s basements - such a blatant Americanism that I’m surprised effort was even made to change “mom” to “mum”
It was more in response to the comment pointed at Os about reading too much US based commentary because of the US terminology used but the reality is you only have to see or hear UK left wing activists to hear this "US terminology." Doesn't need watching of any US commentary when our own activists are using it!
You aren’t that blinkered though. You know there are large swathes of rumbling about these things within the right as if they actually matter to the vast majority on the left. BLM was an American movement, but righties seemed to want to force reasonable people to defend it. Nonsense like ‘all lives matter’ (which is nonsense because everyone knows that already) forced people who aren’t totally closed off to the world to explain: The US is deeply divided on race. They are deliberately being provocative and forcing people to think about whether certain people’s lives are treated with as much value.
But even enter into the conversation and you get: oh, you woke prick! Bla bla bla take the knee. Bla bla bla he was a criminal. Bla bla bla.
Gareth Southgate was the main guy going on about BLM. Take it up with him. But try to respect what is going on in other countries without being a sheep to the far-right propaganda- and in the US it is very much a racial far-right.
But then our right talk about Trump like he is theres and Putin like a hero. So they have lost the patriotism and love of their own country and seem to need to get involved in other people’s fights.
I totally agree. BLM was not our issue. But getting upset about it was as much an American borrowing on the right.
Wowsers. nice to get that off your chest? I know the US has a problem with race. You seem to have not read what I said or added your own meaning into it.
Maybe we should just vote reform and stay quiett on the net, lest we get an earbashing from people banging on about its the right wing's fault provking these reactions!!
Southgate the main guy? Me thinks the train left the station well before Gareth boarded. He was just representative of a lot of the chancers in this country that say the right things so they don't get ostracised. Remember there were a fair amount of black English players criticising the "take the knee" in football, saying it was meaningless once it becomes "just something you do."
I remember a band called Skunk Anansie whose first album had a song on it called "Institutionlise my blackness" which was attacking all the do gooders (mainly white do gooders) that jump on the SJW bandwagon either for cred or to make themselves feel "nice." Skin was hardly right wing male gammon. She was a black, female, lesbian most definitely left wing criticising woke before it became a thing and that was in the mid nineties!
And now we watch elecctions where the dream ticket of Hillary or Biden list out ethnicities in their debates with no care at all for them in reality. Trump does it too. Just a list. No real intent other than reading that list.
It is now not a lot more than a badge of honour for a lot of people. to pu all their little abbrevs after their twitter moniker to show people what kind of person they are, which of course is the best kind of person. The world has become so fake that no-one trusts anything anymore.
Intersectionality of (far) leftist causes is definitely imported from the US. The insanity of “trans people won’t be free until Palestine is free” being a prime example or Green Party candidates praising Houthis attacking British ships because they hate the west.
This is why, for the first time, I feel I can get behind a very central Labour. Because the far left have been kicked out and are now ridiculing themselves elsewhere.
Can you find me some examples of any of those things? And not just from isolated loonies on the internet?
I don't think you read my response?
I said the same as you. BLM was an American borrowing. It did mean something over there. Over here it was exactly what you say - lip service. Plenty of people on the left said the same. The one thing that bothers me was the desperation for right-leaning people to take offence at it. And we are talking about white people getting offended on behalf of black people in the exact same way you are saying the left got all BLM'ed up whether or not it was what black people wanted.
What I am saying is that the right is just us culpable in this. There is a brand of "offended" right-winger that has taken over from the old sceptical right-winger who used to call everyone snowflakes. Saying all these movements are borrowed from America may well be spot on - but the right is borrowing just as many. And crying about all of them.
Let's be clear, anyone who thinks the right is not getting its steer for Joe Rogan and all those other lunatics with their podcasts in the US is sticking their heads in the sand. Read anything by Os. And @Gregm1988 is spot on about where he gets his ideas from. The basement is a clue. The fact you can google most things he says and it brings up right-wing conspiracy websites is another.
Adam Pugh is a Green Party candidate. I mean his whole feed is pretty mental and loathing of the west, but this from the times is what I eluded to above:
When news broke on October 12 that the Royal Navy was sending two vessels to the Mediterranean, Pugh wrote: “I hope they sink.”
You don’t have to look far for queers for Palestine groups. But the particular poster above was on a placard on a protest march.
Do you think he will get elected or do you think he is an outlier with extreme views? If he is not inline to get elected, you can't really claim that a green party candidate is a significant voice. I know a Lib Dem candidate who has been put in to run as he will lose. He is a nice, intelligent guy, but politically insignificant.
I would stop turning my ear to extremist voices.
No I think it’s intrinsic within the greens and certainly not a one off:
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politic...idates-accused-of-antisemitic-slurs-qv96vgphq
Reform are exactly the same with their blatant Islamophobia. Horseshoe theory in full sight.
But yes, the purge of the labour corbynistas (thousands of members have joined the greens) has made it a safe place for centrist voters (even centre right like myself) to vote.
Look, I don't disagree with that. My issue is with this "intersectionality" idea. I can't find anyone anywhere with a credible political background who espouses any of these views. More importantly, I can't find evidence that US-derived intersectionality is responsible for pro-Palestinian feelings in the UK - which was your initial point.
As you well know, growing support for Palestine comes from overly brutal Israeli militaristic actions which have played totally into the hands of Hamas.
But in the UK, we don't vote in people who deviate far from the centre. They don't have much clout.
I can agree with that. However watching UK media mainstream or internet, you would think different because the left version is protected while the right version is lambasted. Yes they are as bad as each other but it is the way it is presented (BLM = good, criticism of the people doing BLM in UK = bad) that is what I am talking about here. The George Floyd thing came over here and suddenly we had protests and st downs everywhere, BLM banners, toppling statues, street names must be changed etc......... all lapped up by the media and politico machine. Any peson criticises.....wowsers, you should have kept it to yourself.
And Os is one person! Seems a bit more righty than me
Agree on a lot of his subjects, maybe not to the same extent and then some things make me hmmm. lol.Tkes all sorts though. Lets all vote reform.
That’s not my point. I’n suggesting a very pure and proper movement has been hijacked by those using it for anti western purposes. In the US on the marches you regularly see the US flag being burned. Over here you hear them chanting for the “Houthis make us proud turn another (British) ship around.”
The people singing these songs, the most fanatical, will be islamist groups (SJP for example) and then usually queers for Palestine groups. You don’t have to look very hard to see these clips on line. They use the same chants over here as they do across the pond because the groups are connected by ideology but also by funding.
My point is really not about the worthiness or lack thereof of the pro Palestinian cause. It’s much more about intersectional manipulation.
By the way, if you want to see what happens when intersectionality actually meets itself then here it is. it’s a joy
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tine-protest-Philadelphia-pride-genocide.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tine-protest-Philadelphia-pride-genocide.html
As I did try to say, I think it is just a point of manners that it is harder to criticise a movement about social justice than it is to criticise. It is like talking about someone's hair cut. You can't just say:I can agree with that. However watching UK media mainstream or internet, you would think different because the left version is protected while the right version is lambasted. Yes they are as bad as each other but it is the way it is presented (BLM = good, criticism of the people doing BLM in UK = bad) that is what I am talking about here. The George Floyd thing came over here and suddenly we had protests and st downs everywhere, BLM banners, toppling statues, street names must be changed etc......... all lapped up by the media and politico machine. Any peson criticises.....wowsers, you should have kept it to yourself.
And Os is one person! Seems a bit more righty than me
Tkes all sorts though. Lets all vote reform.
Your haircut (or your feeling of victimisation) is ****.
And that is the level of a lot of the "critiques" of BLM. Which is annoying because underneath it all, BLM was not and should not have been a British movement. But when people with clearly racist inclinations start marching down the high street waving the English flag, it becomes hard to feel comfortable offering a dissenting voice.
There are several things going on here.
1. Flag burning in the US matters as they are VERY right wing nation that worships the Nation State. They are also a nation that interferes in the affairs of every nation on Earth because... well... they can. As I said the other day, the US is responsible for over a million arab deaths since 9/11. If that is the path to peace with the Middle East, I would be surprised. If a country had killed a million Brits, I would probably burn their flag too.
2. I think they use the same chants over because... the internet. All the propaganda against Israel is coming from Israel right now. My God, the videos I have seen. The IDF strapping a wounded man to their bunker. The old ladies booted down staircases. The children smashed in the face with rifle butts. And that ignores the actual statistics and the videos of men carrying their dying children into ambulances.
You don't need intersectionality or extreme left-wing views to see all that and go... nahhhhh.
I agree with the first part hence why I talk about shield names like "centrist" being utilised to be something that cannot surely be attacked........but are they really centrist? Is Macron centrist? Is Blair or Cameron centrist? or they just use this term for protection?
Globalist is my main gripe because most of them are not globalist, they are self servist parasites most of them. Globalist sounds nice. A giving thing for everybody...........but they are just takers not givers! providing for the haves the cheapest prices / products at the expense of the have nots. Guppys in disguise scaled up massively in financial terms! but of course they "do a lot for charidee", "support all the right causes" while they drain you dry.