Off Topic Politics Thread

[shoot_spiderman]

Posted without any sense of irony. Replace religion with the left wing ideology displayed on here and the same is true.
Every one who describes themselves as socialist all repeat the same dogma from the lefty handbook and don't seem to have any independent thoughts of their own. Or at least if they do think differently they keep it to themselves for fear of a pile on from the hardliners.

The Ten Commandments from the same Old Socialist Testament. No argument allowed.

1. Tell everyone you are a socialist. Only beaten for speed in a conversation by vegans and people from Yorkshire. The announcement is designed to give a sense of social superiority as in "I'm not just a good person but a better person". (Above in red). Underline this by calling yourself progressive.

2. Hate with a vengeance Brexit and Brexiteer racists. Let it go, the vote was almost 8 years ago.

3. Pro Palestine, anti Israel. Not a true socialist if you can't get the basics right.

4. Defend Corbyn, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary insist he was a peacemaker. Same for McDonnell. Claim Abbott to be a hugely respected parliamentarian .

5. Hate the Monarchy.

6. Hate Trump.

7. Harp on about the shame of slavery and the British Empire. To be used at every opportunity to justify national guilt.

8. Deride poppies, Remembrance Sunday and the Armed Forces. Call Remembrance Sunday a celebration of war.

9. Hate the Union Flag and Flag of St George, especially those that fly one, or even worse both, in their garden. Dirty racists the lot of them.

10. Don't tolerate an opposite view. Ideally, anyone who thinks differently should not be allowed to speak (cancel culture) but if they do call them hateful, racist, transphobic, bigot, extreme right wing or any other slur you can think of to shut them up.

Not me, or anyone I know, you need to find some new friends, or maybe just avoid Twitter

That old Virtue-Signalling chestnut?
No one can say anything nice then?

 

[StJabbo1]

I find the argument for the supply side in housing predictable but perhaps misplaced given the UK has more dwellings per capita than much of Europe and the USA. Having read recent reports that I find hard to contradict stating "its strange logic is that speculative developers would build homes in order to devalue them: that they would somehow act against their own interests by producing enough surplus homes to bring down the average price of land and housing. That would be surprisingly philanthropic behaviour.[1]" Certainly I do not believe that, unfortunately, those with the greatest need will benefit from new house buildings as luxury apartments, luxury care homes and four bedroom houses are the prioritized builds.

This article is very interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...lution-to-uk-housing-crisis#comment-166945673

It is interesting, I don't have time to read it in detail today did check this:-
There's a claim in the article " In London, as the Conservative Home blog notes, there is a terrible housing crisis “even though its population is roughly the same as it was 70 years ago”, when the city was still extensively bomb-damaged by the second world war.
The numbers: 1954 - 8,294,000 and in 2024 9,748,000. I wouldn't call that roughly the same also not surprised that the blog got it wrong, mistakenly I'm sure

 

[OddRiverOakWizards]

It is interesting, I don't have time to read it in detail today did check this:-
There's a claim in the article " In London, as the Conservative Home blog notes, there is a terrible housing crisis “even though its population is roughly the same as it was 70 years ago”, when the city was still extensively bomb-damaged by the second world war.
The numbers: 1954 - 8,294,000 and in 2024 9,748,000. I wouldn't call that roughly the same also not surprised that the blog got it wrong, mistakenly I'm sure

The argument is that it is caused by too many people owning multiple properties for renting which if changed like in the seventies would free up housing. Letting developers trash the environment and control supply is not going to benefit society.

 

[StJabbo1]

The argument is that it is caused by too many people owning multiple properties for renting which if changed like in the seventies would free up housing. Letting developers trash the environment and control supply is not going to benefit society.

Reading a bit more of the article I found this interesting.
"Conservatives in the 1970s merely sought to retain a handful of petty landlords, who ought to be entitled to a “fair return” if they let out a spare room or two, but they recognised that private renting tends to be an expensive, poor-quality and economically wasteful way of accommodating the population. The near-death of landlordism was one of the good news stories of the last century.

But the task that Thatcher and her successors set themselves was to undo that progress. The present system was designed, as the supreme court noted in a tenant’s 2016 human rights challenge, to ensure that “the letting of private property will again become an economic proposition”. It should have been obvious to everyone that a market that had achieved such positive effects by its collapse would produce equal and opposite consequences as it was reinflated.

We now find ourselves in a situation where one in every 21 adults in the UK is a landlord. We have four times as many landlords as teachers. As a consequence, virtually everyone struggles to afford a home that meets their needs despite a net gain in housing stock. Landlords are entitled to ask for whatever rent they think they can get, and insecure contracts drive a coach and horses through the concept of tenants’ rights. This is the market that Leigh, landlords and developers want to “free up”. Instead of confronting the horror of our situation and its causes, they pretend that there is an extraordinary shortage of homes. This is simply untrue, as the international and historical data shows."

And this, the final paragraph. It appears that Homes Under The Hammer has a lot to answer for.

"Where Adam Smith and Karl Marx found common ground was in the idea that everyone’s interests are aligned against landlords: they are an economic deadweight. Even if we leave aside the appalling conditions and precarity that private renters face, anyone with an interest in lower taxes, lower wage bills and increasing the number of first-time buyers must equally be interested in smashing the private rented sector to bits. Homebuyers are now forced to compete with landlords, who chase sensational yields in our unregulated rental market, and £85.6bn a year (which comes, of course, from wages and taxes) is wasted on rent. A renewed collapse of landlordism would represent not just the tenants’ revenge for the housing crisis, but a much broader and more valuable moment of social progress."

 

[EasyBreezer]

Yeah I'm a simplistic sensationalist unable to recognise the relative merits of differing systems and is bizarre in differing from your intellectually challenged argument in favour of FPTP.

Its quite apparent that you value your viewpoint as the correct and most viable option. You haven't really offered anything other than the often trotted out tropes of burn the house down and start again. Evolution, not revolution would be the most viable way to structurally change things for the better. Revolutionary changes often have unconsidered consequences. As I understand from your previous reponses, you have a very high quality of life and can afford some transitionary turmoil, like many with your viewpoint on here.. That is not something most people have the benefit of.

 

[StJabbo1]

Its quite apparent that you value your viewpoint as the correct and most viable option. You haven't really offered anything other than the often trotted out tropes of burn the house down and start again. Evolution, not revolution would be the most viable way to structurally change things for the better. Revolutionary changes often have unconsidered consequences. As I understand from your previous reponses, you have a very high quality of life and can afford some transitionary turmoil, like many with your viewpoint on here.. That is not something most people have the benefit of.

Of course I stand by my long held convictions of the need for reform, nothing you've posted does anything to change that. Exactly what turmoil do you envisage? There's all you need to know about PR on the ERS website. I believe that a refined STV wouldn't do anything but improve voter representation. You make unfounded assumptions about my circumstances in order to attempt to denigrate my views. That detracts from your argument. I'm a retired overseas voter living in the Netherlands you may well know that.

I expect you're aware of the change in mayoral elections to FPTP from PR? Have a read of this https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk...ections-means-less-choice-and-a-weaker-voice/ . In my view, along with voter ID to combat non existing voter fraud, it's tory gerrymandering.

Enjoying the rest Easter. I think we're finished with this one here.

 

[......loading......]

I am also in favour of proportional representation. I fully understand you point, @EasyBreezer, but stability is a double-edged sword. Our stability is built on a two-party state offering very little political choice to the electorate. It has also fostered an aggressive adversarial system. We could do with a change to consensus politics. Several parties sharing power is the ideal - if you can get genuine cooperation from them.

We need a little idealism in politics. The current set up is so depressingly broken.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

Talking of religion.

Jesus saves!

But Che misses the rebound.

 

[saintrichie123]

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[Archers Road]

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Throw them all in the Thames

 

[San Tejón]

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I have been reading that their shareholders are prepared to re-invest in Thames Water, BUT ONLY IF THEY CAN INCREASE CUSTOMER BILLS BY 40%.
I say **** them, renationalise and then launch hard hitting tax investigations into the major parties involved.
The most recent government figures show that the “tax gap”, the difference between what is owed and what is paid, stood at £35.8 billion in 2021/22.
Tax avoidance is costing all countries so much money but because the rules are invariably made by rich people, or people who want to cosy up to them, I doubt if things will change much.
But if you are accidentally overpaid a benefit then they come for you with everything they’ve got, recouping the money at rates that push the benefit claimer into serious risk of debt, even when it’s their mistake that caused the problem.
We live in a sick society.

 

[StJabbo1]

I have been reading that their shareholders are prepared to re-invest in Thames Water, BUT ONLY IF THEY CAN INCREASE CUSTOMER BILLS BY 40%.
I say **** them, renationalise and then launch hard hitting tax investigations into the major parties involved.
The most recent government figures show that the “tax gap”, the difference between what is owed and what is paid, stood at £35.8 billion in 2021/22.
Tax avoidance is costing all countries so much money but because the rules are invariably made by rich people, or people who want to cosy up to them, I doubt if things will change much.
But if you are accidentally overpaid a benefit then they come for you with everything they’ve got, recouping the money at rates that push the benefit claimer into serious risk of debt, even when it’s their mistake that caused the problem.
We live in a sick society.

Railways and utilities run for the benefit of the shareholders paid for by the taxpayers.

 

[StJabbo1]

Electoral Reform Society latest.
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/

 

[The Ides of March]

Apologies, I’ve been away so didn’t respond to this sooner.

This almost proves my point. This sort of selfish, narcissistic thinking has been massively amplified by a lack of religion.

For all the cons of organised religion, there are some huge, huge benefits of it.

One of those is: community. Community and pride in your country and fellow men.

We have lost that completely. This is one of the reasons why I hate progressives. They don’t understand that if you stand for nothing, you fall for anything. The void where pride in your country and religion used to be will be filled up with toxic narratives that make society worse as a whole.

We can certainly argue whether organised religion is an overall net benefit for society. But I believe it’s absolutely definite that the rise of atheism and moving away from spirituality/community is creating a more selfish society and having a negative impact.

There is a growing lack of respect and discipline and i can see it everywhere I look.

Would a return to Druidism help in this matter?

 

[The Ides of March]

Posted without any sense of irony. Replace religion with the left wing ideology displayed on here and the same is true.
Every one who describes themselves as socialist all repeat the same dogma from the lefty handbook and don't seem to have any independent thoughts of their own. Or at least if they do think differently they keep it to themselves for fear of a pile on from the hardliners.

The Ten Commandments from the same Old Socialist Testament. No argument allowed.

1. Tell everyone you are a socialist. Only beaten for speed in a conversation by vegans and people from Yorkshire. The announcement is designed to give a sense of social superiority as in "I'm not just a good person but a better person". (Above in red). Underline this by calling yourself progressive.

2. Hate with a vengeance Brexit and Brexiteer racists. Let it go, the vote was almost 8 years ago.

3. Pro Palestine, anti Israel. Not a true socialist if you can't get the basics right.

4. Defend Corbyn, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary insist he was a peacemaker. Same for McDonnell. Claim Abbott to be a hugely respected parliamentarian .

5. Hate the Monarchy.

6. Hate Trump.

7. Harp on about the shame of slavery and the British Empire. To be used at every opportunity to justify national guilt.

8. Deride poppies, Remembrance Sunday and the Armed Forces. Call Remembrance Sunday a celebration of war.

9. Hate the Union Flag and Flag of St George, especially those that fly one, or even worse both, in their garden. Dirty racists the lot of them.

10. Don't tolerate an opposite view. Ideally, anyone who thinks differently should not be allowed to speak (cancel culture) but if they do call them hateful, racist, transphobic, bigot, extreme right wing or any other slur you can think of to shut them up.

I'm a 2 out of 10 socialist as "I hate Trump" and "Hate Brexit." As for number 3, it is not being Pro-Palestinian to be critical of what Israel is doing to Gaza.Even the great Chomsky is very scathing in what Israel is doing to Gaza. Regarding number 7, isn't it right to question what went on during all the days of Empire, don't you think?

I think everyone on here right across the board respects Remembrance Sunday. As for the Monarch and flags, I am indifferent to both.

 

[......loading......]

Posted without any sense of irony. Replace religion with the left wing ideology displayed on here and the same is true.
Every one who describes themselves as socialist all repeat the same dogma from the lefty handbook and don't seem to have any independent thoughts of their own. Or at least if they do think differently they keep it to themselves for fear of a pile on from the hardliners.

The Ten Commandments from the same Old Socialist Testament. No argument allowed.

1. Tell everyone you are a socialist. Only beaten for speed in a conversation by vegans and people from Yorkshire. The announcement is designed to give a sense of social superiority as in "I'm not just a good person but a better person". (Above in red). Underline this by calling yourself progressive.

2. Hate with a vengeance Brexit and Brexiteer racists. Let it go, the vote was almost 8 years ago.

3. Pro Palestine, anti Israel. Not a true socialist if you can't get the basics right.

4. Defend Corbyn, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary insist he was a peacemaker. Same for McDonnell. Claim Abbott to be a hugely respected parliamentarian .

5. Hate the Monarchy.

6. Hate Trump.

7. Harp on about the shame of slavery and the British Empire. To be used at every opportunity to justify national guilt.

8. Deride poppies, Remembrance Sunday and the Armed Forces. Call Remembrance Sunday a celebration of war.

9. Hate the Union Flag and Flag of St George, especially those that fly one, or even worse both, in their garden. Dirty racists the lot of them.

10. Don't tolerate an opposite view. Ideally, anyone who thinks differently should not be allowed to speak (cancel culture) but if they do call them hateful, racist, transphobic, bigot, extreme right wing or any other slur you can think of to shut them up.

I have ignored this until now as I am convinced you are on the wind-up, but I do believe your opening gambit of “posted without any sense of irony” is intended as a warning of what is to come rather than a comment on the quoted post.

You have taken all socialist viewpoints and reduced them to a few hackneyed stereotypes in an attempt to prove all socialists are not worth listening to, and then you end with point 10: an attack on people who ‘don’t tolerate an opposite view’. This is a masterwork in irony - highlighted from the first line and carried through with the angry fervour only reserved for truly great satire.

Bravo, sir! Bravo!

 

[The Ides of March]

I have ignored this until now as I am convinced you are on the wind-up, but I do believe your opening gambit of “posted without any sense of irony” is intended as a warning of what is to come rather than a comment on the quoted post.

You have taken all socialist viewpoints and reduced them to a few hackneyed stereotypes in an attempt to prove all socialists are not worth listening to, and then you end with point 10: an attack on people who ‘don’t tolerate an opposite view’. This is a masterwork in irony - highlighted from the first line and carried through with the angry fervour only reserved for truly great satire.

Bravo, sir! Bravo!

Bravo! Former Trinidad and West Indian cricketer!!

 

[EasyBreezer]

Of course I stand by my long held convictions of the need for reform, nothing you've posted does anything to change that. Exactly what turmoil do you envisage? There's all you need to know about PR on the ERS website. I believe that a refined STV wouldn't do anything but improve voter representation. You make unfounded assumptions about my circumstances in order to attempt to denigrate my views. That detracts from your argument. I'm a retired overseas voter living in the Netherlands you may well know that.

I expect you're aware of the change in mayoral elections to FPTP from PR? Have a read of this https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk...ections-means-less-choice-and-a-weaker-voice/ . In my view, along with voter ID to combat non existing voter fraud, it's tory gerrymandering.

Enjoying the rest Easter. I think we're finished with this one here.

Turmoil regarding a transition to an elected upper chamber, which is where we started.

As I've said the whole time FPTP has many issues and I'm not defending it. I just don't believe any other electoral system is some kind of magic bullet that is immune from it's own, differing issues.

Mayoral elections are very different from GEs... Again, like the Netherlands, PR will routinely return more extreme politicians which I think will be problematic when compared to the rather moderate state of British politics. That alone I see as extremely problematic in this increasingly polarised world.

 

[StJabbo1]

Turmoil regarding a transition to an elected upper chamber, which is where we started.

As I've said the whole time FPTP has many issues and I'm not defending it. I just don't believe any other electoral system is some kind of magic bullet that is immune from it's own, differing issues.

Mayoral elections are very different from GEs... Again, like the Netherlands, PR will routinely return more extreme politicians which I think will be problematic when compared to the rather moderate state of British politics. That alone I see as extremely problematic in this increasingly polarised world.

I think the turmoil you expect would be far less and possibly tempered by transitioning over time. That the HoL needs reform is in no doubt in my mind. A limit on numbers certainly needed, the honours system should be abolished it's been abused for as long as the place has existed

I'm not advocating the Dutch electoral system. There's been some extreme politicians elected in the last GE here none of their policies get anywhere near being enacted.

Please see the ERS description of Single Transferable and Supplementary voting systems compared to FPTP.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

Okay, I’m a socialist who:
1. Never feel the need to wear my politics as a badge.
2. Feel nothing but sympathy for the millions conned into voting for Brexit.
3. Respect the right of Israel and Palestine to exist.
4. Don’t see any point in defending Corbyn, or understand the obsession that the right still have with him.
5. Had a huge respect for the late Queen, but see less to respect with the current monarch or his heir.
6. Hate Trump.
7. Recognise that many of the world’s current problems are a consequence of the exploitation of colonialism. Fail to understand why anyone could be proud of the institution of slavery or of setting one nation above another.
8. As the son of a WWII serviceman and the grandson of a WWI serviceman am proud to wear the poppy and participate every year in remembering the fallen in all wars.
9. Am amused by people who feel the need to display their patriotism by flying flags without any understanding of what a genuine love of one’s country and its people actually means.
10. Get tired of people who have no insight or understanding of how it feels to be born into the wrong body incessantly harping on about them.

"incessantly harp on about them" You're right it is tiring reading the same old stuff day after day. Except when you're a part of it, then it's interesting debate.

These people should be made to post what every other c..t and their dog thinks is interesting on here.