Off Topic Politics Thread

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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I get 100% what you are saying.

However, though I have never worked for Fujitsu, I do have a bit of insight of IT companies and the Government (Labour & Conservative). The problem is that the systems they propose, design and implement would work (and do) in the private sector. There is so much red tape, and frankly procrastination within the government departments, that things never get done and also when they do, they are often so different from what the IT company originally designed (due to Govt management) that they are quite often not fit for purpose. Governments think that 'throw money at it' and it will work. Not always the case.

However, the above is appalling that the SAME company can rinse the government over and over. It really is money for nothing.
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I think the most frustrating thing is that the government negotiators are agreeing contracts that allow the country to be bent over and taken from behind.
How can an IT company sue the government for giving a contract to a competitor AND force it into cancelling said contract and giving it to them?
Do we not include punitive clauses in the contracts for failure to deliver?
Is there any hope that Fujitsu will be forced into compensating the post masters who have been failed miserably by their system?
It just doesn’t make sense that a government can be so easily controlled by any kind of company.
The questions are rhetorical, unless anyone has an answer.
 
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San Tejón said:
I think the most frustrating thing is that the government negotiators are agreeing contracts that allow the country to be bent over and taken from behind.
How can an IT company sue the government for giving a contract to a competitor AND force it into cancelling said contract and giving it to them?
Do we not include punitive clauses in the contracts for failure to deliver?
Is there any hope that Fujitsu will be forced into compensating the post masters who have been failed miserably by their system?
It just doesn’t make sense that a government can be so easily controlled by any kind of company.
The questions are rhetorical, unless anyone has an answer.
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I think the solution is to do it in house. I have worked for a few IT companies - in a bank, DIY, a council and in a large paint company. All of these (except the council) took it back in house.

I now work for a rather large US Bank and we are 100% in house. It gets rid of waste, makes people accountable as well as staff buy in.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
Sorry if I missed this point in the conversation but Fujitsu also provided the Horizon accounting system for the Post Office, which led to over 700 sub-postmasters being falsely convicted of theft. They need to pay compensation.
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Evidence is emerging that Fujitsu staff altered poss office accounts without the postmasters’ knowledge. This one smells worse and worse at time goes by.
 
Anyone find it a bit odd that Ed Davey is basically 2nd in line after Paula Vennell's for punishment in the media here?

I mean he has some responsibility as a former postal affairs minister for 18 months around the time things started to turn around, but this scandal happened across multiple lab, lib and con ministers and despite taking a long time to meet with Alan Bates he eventually did.

Seeing things saying he must resign immediately and hand back his knighthood seems odd to me and as if Lab and Con are turning this into a political weapon which feels like an inappropriate way to treat this issue? (especially as they had their hands all over this as well, but dont seem to be facing anywhere near the kickback?).
 
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Shandy_top_89 said:
Anyone find it a bit odd that Ed Davey is basically 2nd in line after Paula Vennell's for punishment in the media here?

I mean he has some responsibility as a former postal affairs minister for 18 months around the time things started to turn around, but this scandal happened across multiple lab, lib and con ministers and despite taking a long time to meet with Alan Bates he eventually did.

Seeing things saying he must resign immediately and hand back his knighthood seems odd to me and as if Lab and Con are turning this into a political weapon which feels like an inappropriate way to treat this issue? (especially as they had their hands all over this as well, but dont seem to be facing anywhere near the kickback?).
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I may be mistaken, but the "Let's blame Ed Davey" bandwagon appears to be driven by some, possibly right of centre, sections of the press, who see this as a cudgel to beat the Lib Dems with. If I was cynical (I am) I would suggest that this is being done to try to paint the Lib Dems in a bad light, just prior to a General Election, where the Lib Dems may be the main opposition to Tory candidates. Of course, our free and fair press would never seek to promote some political parties over others, as that would suggest bias, which would never do.
 
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Lemons and Oranges said:
I may be mistaken, but the "Let's blame Ed Davey" bandwagon appears to be driven by some, possibly right of centre, sections of the press, who see this as a cudgel to beat the Lib Dems with. If I was cynical (I am) I would suggest that this is being done to try to paint the Lib Dems in a bad light, just prior to a General Election, where the Lib Dems may be the main opposition to Tory candidates. Of course, our free and fair press would never seek to promote some political parties over others, as that would suggest bias, which would never do.
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Besides, wasn’t Ed Davey a minister in the government headed by *checks notes* David Cameron, the current Foreign Secretary?
 
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Ian Hislop absolutely obliterated Jake Berry when he was climbing on the bandwagon on Peston tonight.

Basically saying ‘well, we are going to sort this out it’s quite simple’, funny that how long have you had time to do all of these things?
 
Saintjoey said:
Has the potential to get extremely messy. I think the attack on Tuesday night by the Houthis was designed to draw the US into this military response.
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Literally just made a similar point elsewhere, they've been goading a reaction for sure.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
Sorry if I missed this point in the conversation but Fujitsu also provided the Horizon accounting system for the Post Office, which led to over 700 sub-postmasters being falsely convicted of theft. They need to pay compensation.
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I Have for the last few years noticed what was going on with the Sub-Postmasters, but really it was just 'news' to me. Last night we watched the ITV drama, and I have gone from "oh it's today's news" to being completely outraged. Fujitsu (and the Post Office management) have to be held accountable for it - they lied and lied and lied about it all the time. So many ordinary people, who were just doing their jobs and trying to make a living have been destroyed. I know it was a non-fictional drama on TV with a bit of dramatic licence maybe, but it really is possible one of the scandals of the century.

Alan Bates IMO deserves a knighthood for persevering with it and still fighting for justice.
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I Have for the last few years noticed what was going on with the Sub-Postmasters, but really it was just 'news' to me. Last night we watched the ITV drama, and I have gone from "oh it's today's news" to being completely outraged. Fujitsu (and the Post Office management) have to be held accountable for it - they lied and lied and lied about it all the time. So many ordinary people, who were just doing their jobs and trying to make a living have been destroyed. I know it was a non-fictional drama on TV with a bit of dramatic licence maybe, but it really is possible one of the scandals of the century.

Alan Bates IMO deserves a knighthood for persevering with it and still fighting for justice.
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So much this.

I watched the live feed of the public enquiry yesterday, and the main witness (defendant would be a more accurate description) was Stephen Bradshaw, the Post Office's investigator, who appeared to have harassed, threatened and bullied the sub-postmasters and mistresses, and was incentivised by the Post Office for 'recovering losses'. He was trying to claim that he didn't understand anything about the Horizon system, and the document he signed, stating that Horizon was faultless/robust/beyond criticism, was "written by lawyers", so he signed it. Nuremburg comes to mind
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I Have for the last few years noticed what was going on with the Sub-Postmasters, but really it was just 'news' to me. Last night we watched the ITV drama, and I have gone from "oh it's today's news" to being completely outraged. Fujitsu (and the Post Office management) have to be held accountable for it - they lied and lied and lied about it all the time. So many ordinary people, who were just doing their jobs and trying to make a living have been destroyed. I know it was a non-fictional drama on TV with a bit of dramatic licence maybe, but it really is possible one of the scandals of the century.

Alan Bates IMO deserves a knighthood for persevering with it and still fighting for justice.
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I have it on my watch list, and being a “woke lefty” I know I will be enraged by what I see.
Only this morning I read a heart breaking article about how it destroyed a marriage, where the husband and wife were accusing each other of thieving from their post office.
It also split the extended family as sides were taken and the husband, acting on advice from his lawyers, pleaded guilty and received a 9 month jail sentence.
The husband was, years later, found dead in a bed sit, having not met any of his 6 grand children because of the rift.
Someone in the Post Office and Fujitsu needs to be held accountable and punished as heavily as the law will allow.
 
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Actually think we are justified in taking action to secure the shipping lane, we shouldn’t tolerate these attacks.

Although I think it should be discussed in the Commons.

Now if we were joining full scale action on the Houthis that would be mental.

(ignoring the fact we supply the Saudi’s).
 
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