Off Topic Politics Thread

[Onionman]

I think ultimately it will slowly but surely become "Brexit without Brexit". The UK will rejoin the customs union, which in turn will necessitate rejoining various agreements with the EU like Schengen, etc. Economic integration will resume, just with the right colour of passports.

That's a worse position to be in than actually being in the EU (most of the obligations without any say in the decisions), and it'll probably take a decade or more and a lot of pain to get there, but I'd imagine it's the least-bad option if rejoining the EU is simply a bridge too far for many.

The EU would be mental to let the UK back in to any formal arrangements like the CU or SM until the Tory party changes radically. Sit in their chair for a moment.

Let's say the next government wanted to take us back. The EU would have to take into consideration the fact that a change in government back to the Tories would just mean our leaving again. They won't take that risk.

Until the EU sees a broadly pro EU sentiment on both sides of the HoC we're out.

Until we see consensus across the HoC I see only movement towards working with the EU a little more co-operatively rather than hard, formal ties.

We're out till my kids are my age is my prediction.

Vin

 

[SR get out of my club]

Your whole thing is to poke at people, and then run and whine to the mods that the bad man needs to be punished for responding in kind. If you want to be that guy (and for god's sake, why would you want to be that guy), at least have the dignity to fight your own battles.

If you read his post, he mentions the mods. So i merely said I’ll leave it up to them.

So, how with all the 2000 or so posts, is my whole thing to poke and run and whine to the mods. What a strange, preemptive thing to say. You can be kinda weird.

I think you may find, if you are able to be objective for a second, he was poking, wading in on a reasoned discussion and demanding a response. Initially I wasn’t sure who he was demanding a response from.

And as for your line around have dignity to fight my own battles, which I’ve done many, many times on here - go **** yourself, you sanctimonious cock

 

[StJabbo1]

Last few pages since I posted have been full of posts kind of proving my point. That a lot of people who didn’t vote for Brexit believe the decision to be idiotic etc

There was hardly any middle ground available between each side and that’s why I thought it was an odd take to suggest that has ever been realistically available for those tasked with seeing Brexit through.

Vins take of letting the Brexiteers make a mess of everything and watching to get ready to swoop in seems like a common position for the remain voters.

I think it’s obvious that after the divorce we will naturally become closer with the EU for the sake of the children. Whether that’s ever full membership again, I can’t see it.

Are you saying the shortcomings and failures of brexit along with the lies and misinformation regarding the value of trade deals and other supposed benefits should go unmentioned? Bugger that! I'll happily applaud any gains, financia, whatever they may be, nothing of note to date.

By the way who are the brexiteers making a mess? Those in government or public services or private individuals?

 

[EasyBreezer]

Not sure I agree, we are all in this mess, no matter the reasons why. So should half the country sit by and do nothing? Sounds like a child having its toy taken away approach to me.

I get it wasnt what many wanted, but always felt we would be better off working together rather than pointing fingers and saying not my problem. Because it is actually everyone's problem.

I only object to the coming up with a legitimate brexit plan part.

The brexit plan should have been conceived by those who sold the country it was a good idea.

Insisting it is the responsibility of someone who didn't want it to come up with just seems counter intuitive.

 

[SR get out of my club]

I only object to the coming up with a legitimate brexit plan part.

The brexit plan should have been conceived by those who sold the country it was a good idea.

Insisting it is the responsibility of someone who didn't want it to come up with just seems counter intuitive.

Oh, completely agree, at the time it had to be done by the remainers, but I did feel and still do that had we had a unified approach cross party, considering what was done was done, that would have strengthened our position.

But political posturing meant that was always going to be difficult/impossible, to the detriment of the people that politics are supposed to serve.

My posts, maybe not as clear as some would like, were more around is there anything that the people can do now, rather than the finger pointy exercise that tends to go on. Like I said, I am not smart enough to work out what that was, but was an alternative to people (not aimed at you) moaning about it.

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

It strikes me that, apart from debating issues on this forum, the entire Brexit decision has gone very quiet. We are either waiting for the 'Great Leap Forward', and all this seeming inactivity is simply the great and the good getting their ducks in a row, so that, one day in the future, we will all wake up and appreciate the undoubted benefits of leaving, or the leavers didn't actually expect to win the vote, so they didn't need to come up with a road map for life outside the EU, because it will never happen.

The instigator of all of this was one Nigel Farage ( in my humble opinion), so maybe we should all visit the Farage residence and ask him what to do now.

 

[StJabbo1]

It strikes me that, apart from debating issues on this forum, the entire Brexit decision has gone very quiet. We are either waiting for the 'Great Leap Forward', and all this seeming inactivity is simply the great and the good getting their ducks in a row, so that, one day in the future, we will all wake up and appreciate the undoubted benefits of leaving, or the leavers didn't actually expect to win the vote, so they didn't need to come up with a road map for life outside the EU, because it will never happen.

The instigator of all of this was one Nigel Farage ( in my humble opinion), so maybe we should all visit the Farage residence and ask him what to do now.

I'd include members of the ERG as being responsible and deserve doorsteping to.

 

[Osvaldorama]

And in good news, polling shows that, despite the government's incessant rhetoric, British people's attitudes to immigration are more positive than ever.

"The latest poll, for 2022, shows that for the first time a majority of respondents thought immigration was very positive for the UK economy (59% ranking between seven and 10), enriched the country’s cultural life (58%), and made the country a better place to live (56%)."

From https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...d-positive-view-of-immigration-survey-reveals

I strongly suspect this is a direct result of higher immigration levels. This leads to more people in less urban areas having direct contact with immigrants and realising that they are just... well... people.

Vin

This European Survey seems very much like a propaganda puff piece of a survey to me. They ask 1500 people in random European countries, (800 in smaller ones) specific questions and then extrapolate that to the whole country.

I can make a pretty compelling case that the sorts of people that respond to a survey like that will be from the left wing, liberal bourgeoisie class and not a true representation of how the country feels.

In much the same way Brexit came as a surprise to this class of people (you and a few others on here), all ridiculous surveys like this do is confirm your biases.

 

[Schad]

This European Survey seems very much like a propaganda puff piece of a survey to me. They ask 1500 people in random European countries, (800 in smaller ones) specific questions and then extrapolate that to the whole country.

I can make a pretty compelling case that the sorts of people that respond to a survey like that will be from the left wing, liberal bourgeoisie class and not a true representation of how the country feels.

Surveys and polls, if conducted by even remotely reputable organizations, weigh for demographic factors to address such questions. The ESS publishes their data rather transparently, including the cross-tabs...if you want to make that argument be actually compelling, you can actually look through the data. It took me thirty seconds to register for their data portal:

https://ess-search.nsd.no/

 

[StJabbo1]

Never mind the bollocks listen to Boris and Dom. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/03/trolleying-pm-guide-to-language-boris-johnson-no-10

 

[StJabbo1]

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[EasyBreezer]

Oh, completely agree, at the time it had to be done by the remainers, but I did feel and still do that had we had a unified approach cross party, considering what was done was done, that would have strengthened our position.

But political posturing meant that was always going to be difficult/impossible, to the detriment of the people that politics are supposed to serve.

My posts, maybe not as clear as some would like, were more around is there anything that the people can do now, rather than the finger pointy exercise that tends to go on. Like I said, I am not smart enough to work out what that was, but was an alternative to people (not aimed at you) moaning about it.

Problem is posturising within our political system is basically all that is likely to happen with the archaic structure that governs it.

Referendums don't work in the UK. Having a choice of literally any other type of arrangement vs maintain the status quo was just daft. Brexit should have been defined first. Having such a vague non option win was always going to cause this chaos and it is effectively impossible to make right as people's understanding of the "literally any other option" brexit differs despite being the same vote.

Its nearly an impossible task to resolve.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

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[Lemons and Oranges]

Not an entirely serious suggestion (so what's new?) but Nigel Farage is, I believe, going to be on "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here". Leaving aside the somewhat curious definition of 'celebrity' in Farage's case, this might be an opportunity for the other jungle dwellers to ask Farage what Brexit is meant to achieve, and what it has actually achieved. Alternatively, it will be an opportunity for Remainers to vote en masse, in order to subject Farage to as many Bushtucker Trials as possible.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

Not an entirely serious suggestion (so what's new?) but Nigel Farage is, I believe, going to be on "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here". Leaving aside the somewhat curious definition of 'celebrity' in Farage's case, this might be an opportunity for the other jungle dwellers to ask Farage what Brexit is meant to achieve, and what it has actually achieved. Alternatively, it will be an opportunity for Remainers to vote en masse, in order to subject Farage to as many Bushtucker Trials as possible.

You just know it will be this

 

[San Tejón]

From the Good Law Project.

During the pandemic, 9,000 beds and mattresses were bought – at a cost to the NHS of £24m – for the Government’s Nightingale hospitals which lay largely empty.

From our investigations with the Daily Mirror, we can now reveal that 6,000 of these beds were not fit for clinical use, and have been sold off for only £410,000.

We found that in some cases, beds bought for thousands of pounds were being flogged for as little as £6 each.

 

[Onionman]

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Well said.

Vin

 

[San Tejón]

Anyone else find this disgusting? That he had targeted 5 women previously clearly indicates that he is a predator should receive no reduction in his sentence


“vile Jordan McSweeney kicked and stamped defenceless Zara Aleena to death in a horrific sex attack that lasted nine minutes.

But three appeal judges yesterday ruled his 38-year minimum sentence was excessive because the victim was unconscious early on and there was no “additional suffering”, despite having 46 separate injuries.

They reduced his term by five years, sparking fury among the victim’s relatives.

McSweeney, 30, had targeted at least five women before he killed trainee solicitor Zara, who was 35.”

 

[saintlyhero]

Are you saying the shortcomings and failures of brexit along with the lies and misinformation regarding the value of trade deals and other supposed benefits should go unmentioned? Bugger that! I'll happily applaud any gains, financia, whatever they may be, nothing of note to date.

By the way who are the brexiteers making a mess? Those in government or public services or private individuals?

It’s government which ultimately makes the decisions which affect our relationships with other countries and international bodies.
Us citizens just have to make the best of it.

When we were in the EU, some politicians blamed the perceived shortcomings of the country on being in the EU, now we’re out, not being in the EU will be the core reason for a few politicians, but ultimately it’s a smokescreen for any failures from our own leaders

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

Anyone else find this disgusting? That he had targeted 5 women previously clearly indicates that he is a predator should receive no reduction in his sentence


“vile Jordan McSweeney kicked and stamped defenceless Zara Aleena to death in a horrific sex attack that lasted nine minutes.

But three appeal judges yesterday ruled his 38-year minimum sentence was excessive because the victim was unconscious early on and there was no “additional suffering”, despite having 46 separate injuries.

They reduced his term by five years, sparking fury among the victim’s relatives.

McSweeney, 30, had targeted at least five women before he killed trainee solicitor Zara, who was 35.”

Perhaps the judge is simply shortening the time before McSweeney has to leave the relative safety of his cell, to get what's coming to him, on the outside