garysfc
Well-Known Member
I don’t think any UK Gov had made a decent or correct decision since Cameron’s disastrous decision to give a public Brexit vote. And that includes the opposition for failing on all fronts as well.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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The illusion that there are so few competent people around that to get a good banker you need millions in bonuses is absurd. Banking is an old boys’ club.
But the opposition are not a government? I am not sure what you are really supposed to do in opposition apart from saying, "I disagree!". There is no equivalence between opposition and government at all.
It is like two men cutting wood. One holds the axe and the other waits their turn. The first man cannot cut the wood. They have not both failed to cut wood. The second man's advice for wood cutting is not going to be listened to anyway.
I don't like Starmer, but Labour have been busy rebranding over the course of this government and have done a good job at reclaiming the middle ground.
But the opposition are not a government? I am not sure what you are really supposed to do in opposition apart from saying, "I disagree!". There is no equivalence between opposition and government at all.
It is like two men cutting wood. One holds the axe and the other waits their turn. The first man cannot cut the wood. They have not both failed to cut wood. The second man's advice for wood cutting is not going to be listened to anyway.
I don't like Starmer, but Labour have been busy rebranding over the course of this government and have done a good job at reclaiming the middle ground.
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It goes back further than that. Clegg and his LIb Dems contributed to ****ed up England with their coalition with Dodgy Dave Cameron's tories.
Edit: A good deal of the blame for the abominable Johnson's excesses lies at the door of those that allowed the 2019 election with it's totally predictable result.
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No it doesn’t. The opposition is not the U.K. government and cannot make any decisions. They may have failed to properly hold them to account a lot of the time and provide a valid alternative in elections to get them out but make no mistake - they have not made any of the decisions
Going into coalition is not completely the problem. Scrapping the tuition fee promise for a rubbish AV referendum was what did it. There is every chance that without ditching that pledge there would have been no Tory majority after the first coalition. And that is where it all runs from - a weak Tory majority that needed to be protected from ukip in the eyes of Cameron. No way could he pander to ukip if the Lib Dem’s had not collapsed
Thanks a bunch.....now I'm worried about the two men cutting wood!
Well the one guy has been cutting wood for over a decade and all his mates have nice fires but the poor people have just noticed their log houses have all gone. The second guy will hopefully use his logging for those people to start rebuilding.
There's this https://www.theguardian.com/politic...legg-electoral-pact-coalition-government-2015
This looks a good read. https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/ben-riley-smith/the-right-to-rule/9781399810296/
"Over the last decade, the British people have seen five different Conservative Prime Ministers, with five different missions and five messages to the nation. From the ashes of a financial crisis, to a break from the EU, to a global pandemic, governments – and ideologies – have changed, but Tory power has clung on. Merciless rebellion and the swift ousting of leaders have enabled this, and yet the same ruthlessness may ultimately bring about their downfall."
Some reviews.
Andrew Marr - brilliant encapsulation of thirteen years.
Jon Sopel - Essential.
Ed Balls - Insightful, authoritative and incredibly readable. It had me open-mouthed with amazement.
Michael Portillo - Expertly explains how a governing party mainly skilled in backstabbing survived in power.
I'm more worried about the tree. The only hope it has is that the axemen are equally hopeless
See my follow up. I believe that we stopped cutting down trees and have been disassembling the homes of the poor for the last ten years...
Yeah, we ran out of trees some time ago. Used them all to build ships apparently, and used the ships to build an empire. All of which profited a handful of landowners and their descendants.
Careful with that axe, Eugene
Some quotes from H L Mencken about government in general
I don’t agree with that but believe they are particularly relevant at present …
I don’t agree with that but believe they are particularly relevant at present …
- If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner.
- For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
- The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary
Another nail in the tories election coffin, not fit for purpose, never were.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...or-derelict-land-that-sold-for-63m-a-year-ago
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...or-derelict-land-that-sold-for-63m-a-year-ago
Podcast from the PE. This one titled Electile Dysfunction
https://audioboom.com/posts/8390037...LVPDmB69B1dw3HIIdxK8KdwK5mtuw_3SjzB_2g4BQvyuU
Their podcast homepage https://www.private-eye.co.uk/podcast I've a bit of catching up to do.
https://audioboom.com/posts/8390037...LVPDmB69B1dw3HIIdxK8KdwK5mtuw_3SjzB_2g4BQvyuU
Their podcast homepage https://www.private-eye.co.uk/podcast I've a bit of catching up to do.
Not completely true, Capitalism works with appropriate regulation, although multi-nationals make this complex
Amazon should pay tax and provide decent working conditions, the first is complicated because they play countries off against each other, the second is easy because its within our power to enforce this, we just have a gov that doesn't care
Also, I buy stuff online from smaller organisations sometimes and have always had good service, I make sure they have good reviews
I also tend to try and buy what I want so I don't need to send it back, however if I need to swap I've never had a problem
But I basically agree with your main point
garysfc
Well-Known Member
They all have a job even if not in power AND that’s exactly what I meant. Weak opposition not doing their job. In fighting, etc, etc.
Jeez, can’t believe you came back with that. If Lab had done their job they’d be in power now. Even with the Tories machine gunning their feet at present & for the last x years, I’m still not convinced Lab will be able to get across the line which they should be nailed on for. “ALL” are a bunch of numptys. Just my personal opinion tho. And before someone jumps & takes the ALL literally & starts mentioning some really great politician(s), I put the ALL in high lites deliberately.
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So I don't normally post in this thread but there's something I want to get off my chest, something of the political nature. To do with what's going on in Israel and Gaza....
So because Antonio Guterres dared to suggest that Israel are not completely innocent in this conflict, he's getting absolutely pilloried by the press. That's what annoys me about the narrative to do with Gaza and Palestine and Israel, not just this year but in the past. Everyone is so damn tribal about it. You get people who are either free Palestine or I stand with Israel and not even any attempt of nuance. It's ridiculous.
Don't get me wrong, nothing justifies terrorism and kidnapping people or shooting missiles into buildings or whatever and Palestine would be better off without hamas, but likewise Israel are not saints with their use of indiscriminate bombing, cluster bombs and white phosphorus as well as their constant settlement building and I don't know what Israel hope to achieve other than creating the next generation of extremists. Well yes, they say destroy hamas but even if they achieve that, what then? Some other organisation will rise up and take their place
Fact is, both sides are terrible in different ways. Though if someone dares to suggest that they get pilloried by the media.
Sorry, just reading the reaction to AG's speech has annoyed me. Judge it for yourself, I feel like it's not unreasonable: https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg...-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east
So because Antonio Guterres dared to suggest that Israel are not completely innocent in this conflict, he's getting absolutely pilloried by the press. That's what annoys me about the narrative to do with Gaza and Palestine and Israel, not just this year but in the past. Everyone is so damn tribal about it. You get people who are either free Palestine or I stand with Israel and not even any attempt of nuance. It's ridiculous.
Don't get me wrong, nothing justifies terrorism and kidnapping people or shooting missiles into buildings or whatever and Palestine would be better off without hamas, but likewise Israel are not saints with their use of indiscriminate bombing, cluster bombs and white phosphorus as well as their constant settlement building and I don't know what Israel hope to achieve other than creating the next generation of extremists. Well yes, they say destroy hamas but even if they achieve that, what then? Some other organisation will rise up and take their place
Fact is, both sides are terrible in different ways. Though if someone dares to suggest that they get pilloried by the media.
Sorry, just reading the reaction to AG's speech has annoyed me. Judge it for yourself, I feel like it's not unreasonable: https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg...-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east
I think one of the things that Israelis are after is a sense of security.
Whenever I have been to Israel I've always been struck by the heightened sense of vigilance and security.
You go anywhere and there are armed guards and metal detectors. Take public transport (anything larger than a taxi) and you should be prepared for soldiers or police to ask for your ID.
Also, whilst often unreported here, there were/are regular rocket attacks from Gaza on Israel (I've been there when it's occurred - on one occasion, during a family trip, there was a rocket attack (luckily no one was killed but a building and a few cars were destroyed). After it was over I rang my parents who were surprised when I told them everything was fine and we were ok, there had been no mention of it in the UK).
My point is that there was a lot of unease in Israel even before the 7th of October, which most Israelis thought would have abated after Israel's withdrawal and dismantlement of settlements from the Gaza strip in 2005.
This is a nation that has been living constantly in the shadow of terrorism and has just had one of the worst terrorist attacks ever perpetrated on it which is why they feel the need to destroy Hamas
Unfortunately, there will always be another organisation but for now, they are dealing with the current threat which is Hamas.
There was an interview with a former PM of Israel earlier on in the week by Laura K from the BBC which sums up how a lot of Israeli's are feeling:
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