Off Topic Politics Thread

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SotonOldBoy said:
Next time the republicans take the Senate, the Biden crime family will be next up,. and we have a view million that will relish that day.
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Will be up for what? The GOP already control the House and have held a whole bunch of hearings, the result of which is absolutely nothing. Controlling the Senate won't change anything.
 
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Saints_Alive said:
We have to hope that the case is watertight and he gets convicted then.
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There's a recording of Trump talking to Brian Kemp, the Governor of Georgia, containing the following "...So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state..."

Georgia state law is clear. It is an offense (sic) to ask anyone to alter the count. Relevant sections are:

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-21/chapter-2/article-15/section-21-2-587/

Explains what fraud consists of. The relevant point is: "Makes a false return of the votes cast at any primary or election"

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2020/title-21/chapter-2/article-15/section-21-2-604/

This one highlights Criminal solicitation to do the above. Which Trump did by asking Kemp to make a false return. Looks reasonably slam-dunky.

This bit is interesting: "A person convicted of the offense of criminal solicitation to commit election fraud in the first degree shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than three years." If he's found guilty he must be sentenced to time in prison.

And this is all Georgia state law. Trump has no ability to pardon himself for state offences.

Vin
 
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Onionman said:
And this is all Georgia state law. Trump has no ability to pardon himself for state offences.
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And unlike some other governors, Brian Kemp (the Republican governor of GA, with whom Trump has feuded) doesn't have the power to unilaterally issue pardons, and from what I can see, the Georgia State Board of Pardons can only consider an application after five years:

https://www.axios.com/2023/08/14/trump-georgia-rico-charges-fani-willis

So if he's found guilty, as you say, he absolutely will do time.
 
SotonOldBoy said:
Next time the republicans take the Senate, the Biden crime family will be next up,. and we have a view million that will relish that day.
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Will that make any difference to whether Trump was guilty of election fraud? I ask as we're discussing the charges against Trump and it seems more than a little irrelevant what happens to Biden.

Do you think Trump is guilty of any of the crimes for which he's been indicted? Do you have reason to disbelieve or doubt the evidence that convinced the relevant Grand Juries that there was a case to answer?

Vin
 
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23909543-23sc188947-criminal-indictment

13 new felony charges for Trump:

- 1x RICO violation.
- 3x Solicitation of Violation of Oath by a Public Officer.
- 1x Conspiracy to Commit Impersonation of a Public Officer.
- 2x Conspiracy to Commit Forgery in the First Degree.
- 2x Conspiracy to Commit False Statements and Writings.
- 1x Conspiracy to Commit Filing False Documents.
- 1x Filing False Documents.
- 2x False Statements and Writings.


Also a bunch of charges for the whole crew...a total of (edit: 19) people charged under RICO, including former Trump lawyers Rudy Guiliani, Sydney Powell, John Eastman and Jenna Ellis, and the former assistant attorney general in Jeffrey Clark. Haven't gone through the sentencing guidelines, but there are a lot of years worth of charges in there.
 
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And here's the take of the day from the rather excellent Brian Klaas:

"The alternative to these latest indictments is to set the precedent that presidents may freely enact sweeping authoritarian conspiracies to try to stay in power after losing elections without fear of serious consequences. It’s that simple. This is rule of law defending democracy."

(the tweet is at:
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Klaas creates one of the finest podcasts available, about power and its misuses, Power Corrupts. Can't begin to explain how professional it is; it's like listening to a top-quality radio broadcast.
 
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Onionman said:
And here's the take of the day from the rather excellent Brian Klaas:

"The alternative to these latest indictments is to set the precedent that presidents may freely enact sweeping authoritarian conspiracies to try to stay in power after losing elections without fear of serious consequences. It’s that simple. This is rule of law defending democracy."

(the tweet is at:
You must log in or register to see media
)

Klaas creates one of the finest podcasts available, about power and its misuses, Power Corrupts. Can't begin to explain how professional it is; it's like listening to a top-quality radio broadcast.
Click to expand...


Thanks Vin. Just subscribed to it and also got the audiobook through Audible.
 
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Onionman said:
And here's the take of the day from the rather excellent Brian Klaas:

"The alternative to these latest indictments is to set the precedent that presidents may freely enact sweeping authoritarian conspiracies to try to stay in power after losing elections without fear of serious consequences. It’s that simple. This is rule of law defending democracy."

(the tweet is at:
You must log in or register to see media
)

Klaas creates one of the finest podcasts available, about power and its misuses, Power Corrupts. Can't begin to explain how professional it is; it's like listening to a top-quality radio broadcast.
Click to expand...

I've read his writing at The Atlantic, but didn't see that he had a podcast. Seems pretty up my alley.
 
Onionman said:
And here's the take of the day from the rather excellent Brian Klaas:

"The alternative to these latest indictments is to set the precedent that presidents may freely enact sweeping authoritarian conspiracies to try to stay in power after losing elections without fear of serious consequences. It’s that simple. This is rule of law defending democracy."

(the tweet is at:
You must log in or register to see media
)

Klaas creates one of the finest podcasts available, about power and its misuses, Power Corrupts. Can't begin to explain how professional it is; it's like listening to a top-quality radio broadcast.
Click to expand...
On my list along with Gary Lineker's Goalhanger Podcasts The Rest Is History, The Rest Is Politics and, possibly given the less than flattering reviews, The rest is football.
 
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