Off Topic Politics Thread

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Osvaldorama said:
To me; a bigger crime than having a stolen document is that the military industrial complex were trying to pressure the president into a war.

That is the most consequential part of that video, in my opinion.
Why were the military trying to force trump to go to war?
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OS, you want hard proof of everything, but you are happy to infer the military industrial complex was forcing him into war. Where do you get that evidence? Here is the section of transcript you refer to:

On discussing Milley telling staff not to allow any illegal orders from Trump, trump replied-

“Well, with Milley – uh, let me see that, I’ll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn’t that amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. This was him,” Trump says, according to the transcript. “They presented me this – this is off the record, but – they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him. We looked at some. This was him. This wasn’t done by me, this was him.”

Your firm evidence is… “we looked at some” and “this was him”.

Explain it to me better.
 
Osvaldorama said:
To me; a bigger crime than having a stolen document is that the military industrial complex were trying to pressure the president into a war.

That is the most consequential part of that video, in my opinion.
Why were the military trying to force trump to go to war?
Click to expand...

I have no love for Mark Milley, but the fact that they had an invasion plan for Iran is wholly unsurprising, and it does not indicate that they were pushing him to do it, either. Most countries have war plans involving any country they might theoretically go to war with: historical rivals, neighbours, countries who beat you in the World Cup, etc. The US infamously had a detailed war plan in the post-WWI era in case they had to fight Canada and the UK, and Canada had a plan to preemptively invade the United States, too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Scheme_No._1

There is almost certainly an updated plan for Canada to invade the US gathering dust somewhere in a filing cabinet. It's just what militaries do.

Iran has been a rival of the US for 50 years now. Of course the US has war plans for Iran. Probably gone through a dozen different iterations of them, in fact. Because if a president decides a war is needed, it's your job as the military to be able to put something into action, rather than saying "uh, can you give us 18 months to figure out the viability?"

Now, the US pressure campaign toward Iran over the past couple decades is utterly idiotic, and has only served to lengthen the existence of the Iranian regime, so don't misconstrue any of the above for being in favour of a war with Iran. But it's also difficult to take seriously the idea that Trump is a peace hawk on Iran given that he ripped up the (previously successful) Iran nuclear deal, assassinated an Iranian general, and then stated that if Iran retaliated for that assassination, the US would commit industrial-scale war crimes (leading the US military to, hilariously, have to issue a statement saying that they had no intention of committing war crimes on that scale no matter what the president says):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump's_threat_for_the_destruction_of_Iranian_cultural_sites
 
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......loading...... said:
OS, you want hard proof of everything, but you are happy to infer the military industrial complex was forcing him into war. Where do you get that evidence? Here is the section of transcript you refer to:

On discussing Milley telling staff not to allow any illegal orders from Trump, trump replied-

“Well, with Milley – uh, let me see that, I’ll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn’t that amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. This was him,” Trump says, according to the transcript. “They presented me this – this is off the record, but – they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him. We looked at some. This was him. This wasn’t done by me, this was him.”

Your firm evidence is… “we looked at some” and “this was him”.

Explain it to me better.
Click to expand...

To me the fact that he was willing to risk jail to procure those documents is fairly compelling.

Look, he was stupid to trust people not to leak that he had them. But the fact that he had them in the first place should certainly give any critical thinker room to pause. (Obviously we need to wait and see what’s actually in them)

Some of you hate Trump so much that you can’t see the wood for the trees.

^ That New Yorker article is just pure anti-trump propaganda. Ludicrous to post that socialist rag as any evidence for anything
 
Osvaldorama said:
To me the fact that he was willing to risk jail to procure those documents is fairly compelling.

Look, he was stupid to trust people not to leak that he had them. But the fact that he had them in the first place should certainly give any critical thinker room to pause. (Obviously we need to wait and see what’s actually in them)

Some of you hate Trump so much that you can’t see the wood for the trees.

^ That New Yorker article is just pure anti-trump propaganda. Ludicrous to post that socialist rag as any evidence for anything
Click to expand...
Wait… doesn’t that go both ways? You seem willing to give Trump a lot of slack. I don’t mind you seeing what you see in this, but where do you get it from? I just want to know which words he says are your locked-in evidence that he is the wronged party here?
 
......loading...... said:
Wait… doesn’t that go both ways? You seem willing to give Trump a lot of slack. I don’t mind you seeing what you see in this, but where do you get it from? I just want to know which words he says are your locked-in evidence that he is the wronged party here?
Click to expand...

Where have I said anything is locked in?

You guys are the one that are attacking trump relentlessly and acting as if Biden is the second coming of the Messiah.

I have repeatedly said if Trump is guilty, I hope he is punished. But I also strongly feel like there is a bigger issue here where establishment is targetting him deliberately.

Look at the whole “Russia collusion” which turned out to be a complete hoax.

For the record, again, I DONT LIKE TRUMP THAT MUCH. I am just concerned about democracy and the precedents that are being set by Biden’s corruption. They are repeatedly attacking trump.

For me, I don’t care about trump, I care about the way they are weaponising the justice system against a political enemy. It is authoritarian and the sort of thing that shouldn’t happen in a democratic nation
 
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Osvaldorama said:
To me the fact that he was willing to risk jail to procure those documents is fairly compelling.

Look, he was stupid to trust people not to leak that he had them. But the fact that he had them in the first place should certainly give any critical thinker room to pause. (Obviously we need to wait and see what’s actually in them)

Some of you hate Trump so much that you can’t see the wood for the trees.

^ That New Yorker article is just pure anti-trump propaganda. Ludicrous to post that socialist rag as any evidence for anything
Click to expand...
The socialist rag that has a series of verified quotes and recorded conversations plus a timeline which matches the actuality. Trump was, is and always will be a lying conniving ****. The Johnson is a pale imitator.
 
StJabbo1 said:
The socialist rag that has a series of verified quotes and recorded conversations plus a timeline which matches the actuality. Trump was, is and always will be a lying conniving ****. The Johnson is a pale imitator.
Click to expand...

As usual, you’re completely missing the point. I am not specifically defending Trump the person. I am against the idea of the justice system being weaponised against a political enemy.
 
Osvaldorama said:
Where have I said anything is locked in?

You guys are the one that are attacking trump relentlessly and acting as if Biden is the second coming of the Messiah.

I have repeatedly said if Trump is guilty, I hope he is punished. But I also strongly feel like there is a bigger issue here where establishment is targetting him deliberately.

Look at the whole “Russia collusion” which turned out to be a complete hoax.

For the record, again, I DONT LIKE TRUMP THAT MUCH. I am just concerned about democracy and the precedents that are being set by Biden’s corruption. They are repeatedly attacking trump.

For me, I don’t care about trump, I care about the way they are weaponising the justice system against a political enemy. It is authoritarian and the sort of thing that shouldn’t happen in a democratic nation
Click to expand...
You said this was fairly compelling and that the real meat of this is that the military industrial complex have tried to force a war. I want to know where you got that from?
 
......loading...... said:
You said this was fairly compelling and that the real meat of this is that the military industrial complex have tried to force a war. I want to know where you got that from?
Click to expand...

From the fact he was willing to keep top secret documents as proof of what he was saying. He must have known there was a risk of being indicted for holding them.

He’s not as stupid as many think
 
......loading...... said:
You are willing to give him a big benefit of the doubt there!
Click to expand...

I am. Like it or not, the image that the left wing / establishment media paint of him as a complete imbecile is actually wrong.

I think he is smarter than you give him credit for and that he kept those documents for a reason. I guess we will find out if they ever get exposed.

Regardless… it’s a **** time for American politics. This should never have happened and he should have known better.
 
Osvaldorama said:
From the fact he was willing to keep top secret documents as proof of what he was saying. He must have known there was a risk of being indicted for holding them.

He’s not as stupid as many think
Click to expand...

If this was about Trump exposing the military-industrial complex he could have just, y'know, declassified the documents while president.

He also held on to several hundred other classified documents, on a variety of subject matters, and Trump himself isn't making the argument that you are. His argument is that he was simply entitled to take whatever he wants. Which isn't true.
 
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Also, the problem with creating a narrative to defend Trump is that you generally get about 12 hours before Trump himself fatally undermines that narrative.

https://www.semafor.com/article/06/...lding-up-classified-documents-in-2021-meeting

So, he wasn't bravely risking his freedom to defend America from the military-industrial complex by smuggling out documents. He was just, y'know, waving random papers around. Those papers certainly weren't classified documents despite what he says on the tape, and despite the fact that the feds later found classified documents in his desk. When he talked about Milley's 'plan', he was actually talking about his own plan to build a golf course, or something, and it's disgraceful that you even suggest that he'd have classified documents out in the open.
 
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I find it fascinating how much slack Os is willing to give Trump. The mental gymnastics and contortions are truly mind blowing. And conversely he has full on Biden derangement syndrome - whilst constantly banging on about everyone else having trump derangement syndrome

As pointed out Os and presumably many of the commentators he follows thinks Biden is senile and completely controlled by others but also a master manipulator who can influence things even when he isn’t in power (and trump was). Notable that when Schad pointed all this out it was all ignored in the reply which cherry picked one aspect of the reply and ignored all the stuff that proves Os utterly wrong. But that is not exactly surprising. I guess I kind of admire someone persistently willing to be shown up and then just soldiering on regardless. What the reasons for this are I do not know

As for Trump not being as stupid as he has been portrayed - I am tempted to agree. I think he is worse. Admitting on recording you have classified documents. In the words of the person Os thinks is the true supervillain with supreme manipulative powers - “C’mon man!”
 
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Gregm1988 said:
I find it fascinating how much slack Os is willing to give Trump. The mental gymnastics and contortions are truly mind blowing. And conversely he has full on Biden derangement syndrome - whilst constantly banging on about everyone else having trump derangement syndrome

As pointed out Os and presumably many of the commentators he follows thinks Biden is senile and completely controlled by others but also a master manipulator who can influence things even when he isn’t in power (and trump was). Notable that when Schad pointed all this out it was all ignored in the reply which cherry picked one aspect of the reply and ignored all the stuff that proves Os utterly wrong. But that is not exactly surprising. I guess I kind of admire someone persistently willing to be shown up and then just soldiering on regardless. What the reasons for this are I do not know

As for Trump not being as stupid as he has been portrayed - I am tempted to agree. I think he is worse. Admitting on recording you have classified documents. In the words of the person Os thinks is the true supervillain with supreme manipulative powers - “C’mon man!”
Click to expand...

I haven’t given trump any slack at all. I have said if he is guilty of a crime then I hope he is punished.

The rest of your post is nonsense based on this very obvious point.

I have said repeatedly I hate all politicians equally. This is why I have the superpower of seeing the truth; whereas you and a few others on here swallow the mainstream media narratives. (Namely that Biden is a good person)
 
Osvaldorama said:
I haven’t given trump any slack at all. I have said if he is guilty of a crime then I hope he is punished.

The rest of your post is nonsense based on this very obvious point.

I have said repeatedly I hate all politicians equally. This is why I have the superpower of seeing the truth; whereas you and a few others on here swallow the mainstream media narratives. (Namely that Biden is a good person)
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Evidence suggests you don’t see all politicians the same. You are forgiving of some - hush money - and furious at others - laptop. That isn’t an equal opinion basis.
 
......loading...... said:
Evidence suggests you don’t see all politicians the same. You are forgiving of some - hush money - and furious at others - laptop. That isn’t an equal opinion basis.
Click to expand...

Where am I forgiving of hush money?

I repeat: IF TRUMP IS GUILTY OF A CRIME I HOPE HE IS PUNISHED.

However, I want Biden to be held to the same standards of scrutiny, justice and accountability and that is fundamentally not happening.

I also see that YouTube is now censoring Presidential candidate Robert Kennedy.

More proof that I was correct when I stated that there is ongoing social media & mainstream media collusion to censor political opinions.

Are they working under orders from Biden like they were on Twitter (before Musk took over)? Because if so; that is the hallmark of authoritarianism.
 
Osvaldorama said:
Where am I forgiving of hush money?

I repeat: IF TRUMP IS GUILTY OF A CRIME I HOPE HE IS PUNISHED.

However, I want Biden to be held to the same standards of scrutiny, justice and accountability and that is fundamentally not happening.

I also see that YouTube is now censoring Presidential candidate Robert Kennedy.

More proof that I was correct when I stated that there is ongoing social media & mainstream media collusion to censor political opinions.

Are they working under orders from Biden like they were on Twitter (before Musk took over)? Because if so; that is the hallmark of authoritarianism.
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I am pretty sure Schad showed before that this isn’t true. However, I am more interested in semantics.

You speak with a weight of guilt placed on Biden. The assumption of guilt. You seem to feel he is a proven felon. You speak with the assumption of innocence with Trump.

“If Trump is guilty” is very different from the way you speak about Biden.

None of us care about US politics and yet many people have pointed this bias out to you. Do you think we are all wrong or is it possible you are doing this without realising?

Are you wearing the emperor’s new clothes?
 
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