Off Topic Politics Thread

[tiggermaster]

I can't but a lot of people will be so entrenched in their views they simply won't be able to vote for anyone else. People who are life long Tory voters are very unlikely to vote for Labour and it's waste of time voting for anyone else. It doesn't mean they are racist though.

Yet, I'm 70 something and voted Labour all my life, but due to boundary changes I now live in the Winchester constituency and my vote is worth something if I vote Liberal and the Tories are beaten. It's likely that many One nation Tories will come to a similar conclusion. I suspect this will happen in many seats. If the price of getting the Tories out promotes a hung parliament prompting a Lab/Lib coalition leading to a realist Prop Rep system then I will rejoice. Young voters would be energised if they thought Greens could be properly represented nationally. A lab/lib/Green agenda in 6 years promoting progressive policies/ideas might just appeal. You may say that I'm a dreamer...

 

[StJabbo1]

Yet, I'm 70 something and voted Labour all my life, but due to boundary changes I now live in the Winchester constituency and my vote is worth something if I vote Liberal and the Tories are beaten. It's likely that many One nation Tories will come to a similar conclusion. I suspect this will happen in many seats. If the price of getting the Tories out promotes a hung parliament prompting a Lab/Lib coalition leading to a realist Prop Rep system then I will rejoice. Young voters would be energised if they thought Greens could be properly represented nationally. A lab/lib/Green agenda in 6 years promoting progressive policies/ideas might just appeal. You may say that I'm a dreamer...

You gotta have dream if you wanna have a dream come true.

 

[StJabbo1]

Yet, I'm 70 something and voted Labour all my life, but due to boundary changes I now live in the Winchester constituency and my vote is worth something if I vote Liberal and the Tories are beaten. It's likely that many One nation Tories will come to a similar conclusion. I suspect this will happen in many seats. If the price of getting the Tories out promotes a hung parliament prompting a Lab/Lib coalition leading to a realist Prop Rep system then I will rejoice. Young voters would be energised if they thought Greens could be properly represented nationally. A lab/lib/Green agenda in 6 years promoting progressive policies/ideas might just appeal. You may say that I'm a dreamer...

Similar to my wish list posted earlier.

 

[Onionman]

I blame the West. If they'd just allowed Russia to invade and take over Ukraine without resistance 18 months ago, this wouldn't be happening. Putin would be in charge in both countries and all would be well in the world. What were we thinking?

Cue the usual suspects saying that supporting a successful invasion of Ukraine would been worth it to avoid this instability...

And sure enough, here they are

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/a-ceasefire-in-ukraine-is-more-important-than-ever/

I particularly love the last paragraph. As ever, literally no agency whatsoever allowed for Ukraine by the British far-left.

"The ministers attacking living standards and public services here are no more to be trusted on foreign policy. In Ukraine they pursue the same class interests as at home. Peace must be imposed on them."

Not a clue.

Vin

 

[Ian Thumwood]

And sure enough, here they are

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/a-ceasefire-in-ukraine-is-more-important-than-ever/

I particularly love the last paragraph. As ever, literally no agency whatsoever allowed for Ukraine by the British far-left.

"The ministers attacking living standards and public services here are no more to be trusted on foreign policy. In Ukraine they pursue the same class interests as at home. Peace must be imposed on them."

Not a clue.

Vin

Um, that is too simplistic.

I am incresingly of the opinion that you cannot employ a Right or Left perspective regarding current Russian politics as all the factions are criminals. I still think that Ukraine was invaded as Putin could see his influence slipping away and appreciated that NATO had effectively surrounded Russia to an extent that they were relegated to the extent of being an irritant as opposed to a genuine super-power. This weekend's developments have been fascinating. It is as if the Russians want to do NATO's work for them. I still think that the situation for Ukraine is still parlous as Russia has simply become more unpredictable. The Russians know that an full scale occupation of Ukraine is beyond them and that, if anyrhing, they will concede territory in a land battle. My fear is that they will do something even more unspeakable to the Ukrainian people. If they can't capture somehwere like Kiev, they will just flatten it by aerieal bombardment. The Russian leaders are rats in a sack and the ultimate impact of the war will depend upon who comes out on top. Hopefully their internal issues will manifest themselves before they decide to something even more horrendous. I cannot see Russia ever being habilitated back in to Europe after this and think the country will decline quicker than under Yeltsin.

 

[The Ides of March]

Unfortunately I predict we will see the rise of a real racist party of a similar ilk to the National Front.

There are similar vibes to Weimar Germany going on right now with the high inflation and general decay of society. Historically this generally leads to a rise in nationalism and extreme rhetoric.

When people feel they are being ignored then the extremes become more attractive. Hope I am wrong, but feels likely to me.

The racist parties that exist in the UK like Britain First, English Democrats, UKIP and the EDL are so divided amongst themselves that is it is leaving the current Government with its current immigration policies, hoovering up.the votes that would normally go to.these parties. Hence the perception that the Tories are rascist. There is no doubt that some members of the Tory membership are undoubtedly rascist. It is a tad unfortunate that it is being applied to all. Following that reasoning I cannot see a powerful.far right party emerging in the UK.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Yet, I'm 70 something and voted Labour all my life, but due to boundary changes I now live in the Winchester constituency and my vote is worth something if I vote Liberal and the Tories are beaten. It's likely that many One nation Tories will come to a similar conclusion. I suspect this will happen in many seats. If the price of getting the Tories out promotes a hung parliament prompting a Lab/Lib coalition leading to a realist Prop Rep system then I will rejoice. Young voters would be energised if they thought Greens could be properly represented nationally. A lab/lib/Green agenda in 6 years promoting progressive policies/ideas might just appeal. You may say that I'm a dreamer...

God I ****ing hope not.

Green Party getting anywhere near power would be catastrophic. Bunch of total morons.

There would be power cuts, food shortages and climate lockdowns “for the greater good”.

 

[Schad]

Um, that is too simplistic.

I am incresingly of the opinion that you cannot employ a Right or Left perspective regarding current Russian politics as all the factions are criminals. I still think that Ukraine was invaded as Putin could see his influence slipping away and appreciated that NATO had effectively surrounded Russia to an extent that they were relegated to the extent of being an irritant as opposed to a genuine super-power. This weekend's developments have been fascinating. It is as if the Russians want to do NATO's work for them. I still think that the situation for Ukraine is still parlous as Russia has simply become more unpredictable. The Russians know that an full scale occupation of Ukraine is beyond them and that, if anyrhing, they will concede territory in a land battle. My fear is that they will do something even more unspeakable to the Ukrainian people. If they can't capture somehwere like Kiev, they will just flatten it by aerieal bombardment. The Russian leaders are rats in a sack and the ultimate impact of the war will depend upon who comes out on top. Hopefully their internal issues will manifest themselves before they decide to something even more horrendous. I cannot see Russia ever being habilitated back in to Europe after this and think the country will decline quicker than under Yeltsin.

Yeah, the long-term issue with Russia is that all of the potentially-viable leaders after Putin are even more extreme in their bellicosity. Giving in to Putin by surrendering a large chunk of Ukraine wouldn't have mollified him, and it would only embolden all of the people in his orbit and on Russian media calling for the whole of the empire to be reestablished.

Admittedly, I don't know what the solution is there. The Russian military isn't going to be in a position for much adventuring for some time, but there will be considerable pressure on Russian leadership (whoever that is) to act like an imperial power still.

 

[Onionman]

Um, that is too simplistic.

I am incresingly of the opinion that you cannot employ a Right or Left perspective regarding current Russian politics as all the factions are criminals. I still think that Ukraine was invaded as Putin could see his influence slipping away and appreciated that NATO had effectively surrounded Russia to an extent that they were relegated to the extent of being an irritant as opposed to a genuine super-power. This weekend's developments have been fascinating. It is as if the Russians want to do NATO's work for them. I still think that the situation for Ukraine is still parlous as Russia has simply become more unpredictable. The Russians know that an full scale occupation of Ukraine is beyond them and that, if anyrhing, they will concede territory in a land battle. My fear is that they will do something even more unspeakable to the Ukrainian people. If they can't capture somehwere like Kiev, they will just flatten it by aerieal bombardment. The Russian leaders are rats in a sack and the ultimate impact of the war will depend upon who comes out on top. Hopefully their internal issues will manifest themselves before they decide to something even more horrendous. I cannot see Russia ever being habilitated back in to Europe after this and think the country will decline quicker than under Yeltsin.

You think Ukraine was invaded because countries who knew Russia of old and were terrified of it and joined a defensive alliance to protect themselves? An alliance that clearly had no intention under any circumstances of invading Russia?

Explain to me Putin's thought process that led from NATO taking in new members to his invading Ukraine in 2014 and 2022. There's no causal link.

I think you may need to rethink that bit.

Here's a map showing just how much NATO "surrounded" Russia pre-war.

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Russia will be a threat for as long as it considers itself an empire in the making, regardless of who is in charge. Such a belief encourages extreme nationalism to flourish as the leaders and their sycophantic oligarchs can divert attention from their rape of Russia by saying they are doing their bit to reclaim the Russian empire.

Vin

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

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[Osvaldorama]

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Ok so sounds like he had some documents which prove the military industrial complex were trying to stitch him up. He kept these to protect himself and now he’s been stitched up anyway?

I know that what he’s done is wrong; but as he correctly said politicians have been found with classified documents before and it was never a crime. Jill Biden even admitted that Joe Biden has Top Secret documents in his garage as recently as last year.

To me this is an insane political hit job. If Vladimir Putin did this to one of his political opponents there would be international outcry

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

Oh, Os…

So far down the rabbit hole you’ll be hitting earth’s molten core at any moment.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

It is hard to try to remain objective about Trump as he is such a c**t.

He really is.

However, whilst I agree others have had classified documents, these were either by mistake or immediately given up when asked/discovered. Trump thinks he is above the law and actively tried to hide the fact he had them. Oh and he is a c**t as well

 

[......loading......]

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My favourite bit is when he calls somebody else a pervert. Mr pussy fingers / wants to **** his daughter!

 

[Schad]

It is hard to try to remain objective about Trump as he is such a c**t.

He really is.

However, whilst I agree others have had classified documents, these were either by mistake or immediately given up when asked/discovered. Trump thinks he is above the law and actively tried to hide the fact he had them. Oh and he is a c**t as well

And that's why he's being prosecuted. The charge is for willful possession. Merely having classified documents won't get you charged. Having classified documents that you know you shouldn't have (and in Trump's case, refusing to give them back when the government demanded them several times over) will.

The funniest part about the tape? He wasn't being secretly recorded. It was a taped interview for his old chief of staff's book, which lavishes praise on Trump, because Mark Meadows knows where his bread is buttered. But Trump is such an idiot that, knowing he was being recorded, he announced that he had classified documents just sitting around, then announced that he knew he wasn't allowed to have them or show them to people, and then narrated himself showing them to people.

The only person who has stitched Trump up is Trump, and it's still remarkable how good of a job he did.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Caroline Nokes maintaining her stance as one of the decent, non-racist, anti-dog whistle Tories:

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[Osvaldorama]

Oh, Os…

So far down the rabbit hole you’ll be hitting earth’s molten core at any moment.

Im not down any rabbit hole, thanks. I’m not even defending Trump.

I just want actual justice to be served; not a political witch hunt. If they go after every other politician that has done something similar then fine.

To me the most important part of that video is that the military industrial complex we’re putting pressure on Trump to start a war. That’s the bigger crime.

It seems interesting to me that they’ve times this indictment to coordinate exactly with 2024 election, meaning it will massively interfere with trumps campaign. I think they are scared of the backlash against Biden’s horrific Presidency and worried trump has a chance of winning again.

Biden has already shown he is willing to corrupt the justice system to protect his son from criminal charges. Why wouldn’t he go after his political enemies too?

 

[Schad]

Biden has already shown he is willing to corrupt the justice system to protect his son from criminal charges. Why wouldn’t he go after his political enemies too?

The district attorney who oversaw the case was a Republican, appointed by Donald Trump. Normally, when presidents change, all of the district attorneys resign so that the president can appoint their own people. However, in order to avoid the appearance of political interference, Biden kept the Republican DA who was investigating his son in place. Said DA charged Hunter Biden with a felony -- being an addict in possession of a firearm -- this is so rare that most prosecutors have never seen it charged, and the constitutionality of that charge is currently being contested in court...by conservatives.

https://www.cato.org/blog/when-unlawful-user-controlled-substance-prohibited-having-gun

It's incredible how frequently Biden has done these corrupt things via i) Donald Trump's appointees, ii) Donald Trump's administration (half the things Os alleges didn't even happen while Biden was president), or iii) via Donald Trump his own damned self, as in Biden's conspiracy to trick Trump into loudly and repeatedly proclaiming his guilt. Truly, a puppet master for the ages (who is also senile somehow, don't ask questions, it isn't meant to make sense).

 

[StJabbo1]

Caroline Nokes maintaining her stance as one of the decent, non-racist, anti-dog whistle Tories:

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How did she escape the cull of half decent tories?

 

[Osvaldorama]

The district attorney who oversaw the case was a Republican, appointed by Donald Trump. Normally, when presidents change, all of the district attorneys resign so that the president can appoint their own people. However, in order to avoid the appearance of political interference, Biden kept the Republican DA who was investigating his son in place. Said DA charged Hunter Biden with a felony -- being an addict in possession of a firearm -- this is so rare that most prosecutors have never seen it charged, and the constitutionality of that charge is currently being contested in court...by conservatives.

https://www.cato.org/blog/when-unlawful-user-controlled-substance-prohibited-having-gun

It's incredible how frequently Biden has done these corrupt things via i) Donald Trump's appointees, ii) Donald Trump's administration (half the things Os alleges didn't even happen while Biden was president), or iii) via Donald Trump his own damned self, as in Biden's conspiracy to trick Trump into loudly and repeatedly proclaiming his guilt. Truly, a puppet master for the ages (who is also senile somehow, don't ask questions, it isn't meant to make sense).

To me; a bigger crime than having a stolen document is that the military industrial complex were trying to pressure the president into a war.

That is the most consequential part of that video, in my opinion.
Why were the military trying to force trump to go to war?