Off Topic Politics Thread

[EasyBreezer]

Local election turnout looked diabolical tonight. Asked the people on the desk and they described a steady stream.

But as they flicked through the list, it appeared to me that on the double columned sheet of A4 which my name was listed I reckon only 20 out of what looked around 80+ names were crossed out. Voted just before 9.

Heard two councillors in the lobby saying it was dead.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Interesting to see that the police investigation into the SNP appears to be stalling. No charges for the two members arrested and the predicted arrest of Nicola Sturgeon has not happened. It was suggested yesterday, admittedly by another SNP figure, that he believed that this was likelyto be a repeat of the fiasco involving the plice investigation into Ranger FC. I think that the whole matter does have wider implications and wondered what the redress was should it materialise that no crime has taken place. Wondered what people would have felt had that happened with Labour or the Conservatives and whether the media would have reported the fall out quite so gleefully? I think it is right that the media and plice forces hold politic parties to account if they have done wrong. However, if there has been no crime and the party's reputation subseenty dragged through the mud, what kind of recompense would they get and how do you value the severe loss of political standing.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

Here’s how messed up our electoral system is …
“Some experts thinks Labour would need to be at least 10 points ahead of the Conservatives at a general election to have a one seat majority

However …
“Labour’s recent recovery in Scotland is changing that calculation”

 

[shoot_spiderman]

How is it privileged entitled elites? I must be mistaken thinking Kier Starmer and many other labour people slummed it with poor working class ****wits like you. Double standards.

Me and my wife work two ****ing jobs each to pay for this, how ****ing dare all you judgemental pricks say **** like this.

And as a moderator Chilco, what a disgrace letting things like that go on and openly like them, but then no change there then. Online bullies.

Don’t bother replying any of you. I won’t stay in a place that’s judges me around stuff to do with my children, they are far more important and precious than any of you.

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[It'sOnlyAGame]

Interesting to see that the police investigation into the SNP appears to be stalling. No charges for the two members arrested and the predicted arrest of Nicola Sturgeon has not happened. It was suggested yesterday, admittedly by another SNP figure, that he believed that this was likelyto be a repeat of the fiasco involving the plice investigation into Ranger FC. I think that the whole matter does have wider implications and wondered what the redress was should it materialise that no crime has taken place. Wondered what people would have felt had that happened with Labour or the Conservatives and whether the media would have reported the fall out quite so gleefully? I think it is right that the media and plice forces hold politic parties to account if they have done wrong. However, if there has been no crime and the party's reputation subseenty dragged through the mud, what kind of recompense would they get and how do you value the severe loss of political standing.

You may be right Ian but the impression I have is that Police Scotland already have their case and are building up more evidence. The searches of Sturgeon's house is still ongoing and search warrants are not easily obtained from the Sherriff without showing a solid case. There have been small snippets of information that suggest some people have been using party money to do their personal shopping.

In saying this, I have to admit that all of the above may be hopeful speculation from the anti Sturgeon movement. I accept that but the people posting it are known for their reliable information on previous issues. So my general feeling is that it hasn't gone away yet and they still have her in their sights.

 

[Osvaldorama]

What utter nonsense. Private schools have been absuing their charitable status for generations.

The disparity in education children in the UK receive is a national disgrace.

To be in favour of the current system just illuminates the fact that you are happy with grotesque, systemic inequality so long as you are a beneficiary.

I am totally OK for those that want to send their children to private school.

Government funded schools are absolutely ****e (as pointed out by a teacher on here).

Just like with the NHS and private medical care, the education system isn’t fit for purpose and you can’t blame those that have the means to escape from doing so.

Calling people “privileged entitled elites” is ridiculously childish and as usual on this politics thread shows the sort of left wing/socialist attitude that hates other peoples success.

The view that the “disparity in educational standards is a disgrace” fails to account for the fact that it costs a lot of money to educate children.

The wealthy that send their children to these schools already pay a hugely disproportionate amount of tax.

I would also assume that some of the tax breaks are because the children are being paid for by the parents instead of taxpayer money? I guess this is something that could be looked into; but it’s more complicated than just saying “it’s so unfair”

 

[The Ides of March]

Well in fairness it was a Scottish King who came down here!

After the previous Welsh-Norman dynasty ran out of seed…

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

I am totally OK for those that want to send their children to private school.

Government funded schools are absolutely ****e (as pointed out by a teacher on here).

Just like with the NHS and private medical care, the education system isn’t fit for purpose and you can’t blame those that have the means to escape from doing so.

Calling people “privileged entitled elites” is ridiculously childish and as usual on this politics thread shows the sort of left wing/socialist attitude that hates other peoples success.

The view that the “disparity in educational standards is a disgrace” fails to account for the fact that it costs a lot of money to educate children.

The wealthy that send their children to these schools already pay a hugely disproportionate amount of tax.

I would also assume that some of the tax breaks are because the children are being paid for by the parents instead of taxpayer money? I guess this is something that could be looked into; but it’s more complicated than just saying “it’s so unfair”

I totally agree with you here O's.

There seems to be an undercurrent in this country that it is a crime to do well and earn money. I am not talking about those that have inherited it (though their forefathers did go out and earn it), but just regular Joe Bloggs who happens to progress him/her self and get on a good salary. There are shouts of "Tax them!" at all opportunities and how bad it is that there are tax breaks for things such as private education and private healthcare. I pay slightly less NI as my employer provides me with private health care - that is because I probably will use it (I did this morning actually) and not NHS provided care. I happen to agree that the NHS is in disarray, and doctors and particularly nurses are overworked and underpaid, but I will still use my company provided cover if I need to. If they didn't provide it, I wouldn't pay it myself and would use the NHS.

I was in a position to be sent to private school when I was younger and fought (and won) the argument with my parents - do I regret it? No, not at all. I strongly believe that i wouldn't be on a different path in life even if I had gone to private school. However, the state schools where I am were then probably equally as good as the private schools in their education. We could have sent my daughter to private, but we chose not to and she has turned out ok. I don't have any objection to people sending their kids to private school, but I am a firm believer that cream rises to the top anyway, so in my simplistic world there is no need.

The education system though today is probably a lot, lot worse than then and I am out of touch with it to be honest, not having children of that age.

IMO free, good education is a right for all. If there are those that want to pay for it, then so be it. I also can't see the issue with giving them tax breaks if they are paying £30-40k a year to educate their kids as they are out of the system. They still pay enough tax into the system to help fund the state schools - they are effectively paying twice to educate their kids.

As an atheist, churches are the ones that get me with tax exceptions. Don't get me started on that as I will probably get banned lol.

 

[EasyBreezer]

I am totally OK for those that want to send their children to private school.

Government funded schools are absolutely ****e (as pointed out by a teacher on here).

Just like with the NHS and private medical care, the education system isn’t fit for purpose and you can’t blame those that have the means to escape from doing so.

Calling people “privileged entitled elites” is ridiculously childish and as usual on this politics thread shows the sort of left wing/socialist attitude that hates other peoples success.

The view that the “disparity in educational standards is a disgrace” fails to account for the fact that it costs a lot of money to educate children.

The wealthy that send their children to these schools already pay a hugely disproportionate amount of tax.

I would also assume that some of the tax breaks are because the children are being paid for by the parents instead of taxpayer money? I guess this is something that could be looked into; but it’s more complicated than just saying “it’s so unfair”

I'm totally okay with the existence of private schools too, as I said.

I also never called anyone a privileged elite.

I am also not a socialist and have never claimed to be one.

I also agree it's a nuanced issue. It is however true that those who go to private schools have a significant advantage in life and having a two tier society is completely unfair to children who are born poor.

I feel like you have just read other people's comments and replied to me using only strawman arguments..?

 

[EasyBreezer]

I don't have any objection to people sending their kids to private school, but I am a firm believer that cream rises to the top anyway, so in my simplistic world there is no need.

This just isn't true and can be easily proven...

Nearly every single aspect of the upper echelons of society are disproportionately populated with private school educated people.

Olympians, athletes, actors, musicians, CEOs, hedge fund managers, judges, politicians, diplomats, entrepreneurs etc etc and so on are all dominated by privately educated people relative to the population.

93% of children are born with a competitive disadvantage, fact.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I'm totally okay with the existence of private schools too, as I said.

I also never called anyone a privileged elite.

I am also not a socialist and have never claimed to be one.

I also agree it's a nuanced issue. It is however true that those who go to private schools have a significant advantage in life and having a two tier society is completely unfair to children who are born poor.

I feel like you have just read other people's comments and replied to me using only strawman arguments..?

Apologies, I was sort of replying to the thread in general.

As usual it’s a much more complicated issue than it first appears.

I feel like a tiered system is inevitable, unfortunately. You will always have people more well off than others, and those people will seek to give their family any advantage possible. (Totally agree about that the educational benefits of private schooling may actually be negligible.)

It seems to me that a huge part of the benefits of private school is the network effect… meeting other well off families. I really don’t know how you could prevent this from happening without abolishing private schools altogether.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

The Tories have almost been wiped off the electoral map in Bath & North East Somerset

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Strangely, the best-placed party to remove Jacob Rees-Mogg from his seat in the GE are Labour, as his seat doesn’t include the Lib Dem stronghold of Bath itself. The towns of Midsomer Norton, Radstock, and Keynsham will be crucial to Labour’s hopes. The evidence from this election is that the Lib Dem’s have polled strongly in the rural wards as well as the city of Bath.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

All my nieces and nephews are privately educated - they've had a great education and will make useful contacts I'm sure. I don't blame either of my brothers for sending them to school, but I think that if you buy something that gives your kids a competitive advantage, then pay the tax on what is very much a luxury item.
If anything should attract VAT, it's a better version of something you get for free.

I couldn't afford to send my kids to private schools, so they were let down by the state school system instead. If I could have afforded it, I probably would. And the tax if it was due because I think taxes are good.

 

[saintrichie123]

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[......loading......]

I just want to point out that I have been misrepresented if I am the teacher Os is talking about. I actually said Private Schools are a con, not that state schools are bad. State schools are chronically underfunded- by successive Tory governments- as they send their children to private schools (which are ‘charitable’ and tax free).

This is the issue some of you are side-stepping. A two-tiered system may be somewhat inevitable, but we currently have a drastic disparity of opportunity between both. The rich are getting rich faster than ever and the poor are more stuck than any point since WW1.

The whole ‘well we made it so why can’t we send our kids to private school’ would be all well and good if the incoming nouveau riche upheld working class values AND SYMPATHY for those they left behind. This is not what happens. Absorbed into the elite, the old hatred of the ‘lazy’ and ‘drunken’ poor - propagated by the elite since at least the Victorian period - is quickly adopted by those lucky enough to make it.

Private education leads to snobbery, but more importantly it is the worst magnifier of social injustice that exists in our country. That 7% of people attend them, but over 50% of CEOs did and 93% of judges is a terrible indictment on our society. They should not exist. Just as the monarchy should not exist. We need to work on loving our neighbours and vowing to actually make education work for everyone.

One last thing. The reason state schools are bad is because the children in them see no hope of a better life. Their parents had bad / no jobs and so did their grandparents. Fix the country, give these kids hope, remove the symbols of class worship:.. and schools would get better.

 

[saintrichie123]

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[thebronze14]

I am totally OK for those that want to send their children to private school.

Government funded schools are absolutely ****e (as pointed out by a teacher on here).

Just like with the NHS and private medical care, the education system isn’t fit for purpose and you can’t blame those that have the means to escape from doing so.

Calling people “privileged entitled elites” is ridiculously childish and as usual on this politics thread shows the sort of left wing/socialist attitude that hates other peoples success.

The view that the “disparity in educational standards is a disgrace” fails to account for the fact that it costs a lot of money to educate children.

The wealthy that send their children to these schools already pay a hugely disproportionate amount of tax.

I would also assume that some of the tax breaks are because the children are being paid for by the parents instead of taxpayer money? I guess this is something that could be looked into; but it’s more complicated than just saying “it’s so unfair”

In Ireland the system is much better. There is a tiny amount of private schools and the standard in most public schools is of a high level thankfully. The English system is all about results from a young age and not enough about overall well-being and a more rounded form of education for the child. I'm a primary school teacher here in Ireland. I moved to Manchester a few years ago for a couple of years but ended up working in a bar. I knew from talking to teachers there that the wages were very low and work life balance was awful compared to here. It seems like non stop paperwork. In Ireland there is more time spent on after school clubs which actually benefit the student as opposed to burn out the teacher needlessly. The British system where you need to go to private school to get a good education benefits the elite and those with money and is probably why there is little political will to change it

 

[EasyBreezer]

Apologies, I was sort of replying to the thread in general.

As usual it’s a much more complicated issue than it first appears.

I feel like a tiered system is inevitable, unfortunately. You will always have people more well off than others, and those people will seek to give their family any advantage possible. (Totally agree about that the educational benefits of private schooling may actually be negligible.)

It seems to me that a huge part of the benefits of private school is the network effect… meeting other well off families. I really don’t know how you could prevent this from happening without abolishing private schools altogether.

As others have rightly pointed out, it is that society is becoming more unequal than it has been for large swathes of time over the past 30+ years.

It is fine for private schools to exist, it isn't fine for them to benefit from charitable status.

The fact that the richest in this country doubled their wealth during the financial crash then doubled it again during COVID whilst trying to spread a message that we are all in this together is disgusting, and having useful idiots like Billy above defending this system despite having to work 2 jobs to even come close to being part of that world is frankly bizarre.

We are in a cost of living crisis, inflation on food is nearly thirty ****ing percent, the cost of bills have more than doubled and rents and mortgages have put middle income earners close to living month to month.

All while companies are all reporting record profits and the rich are getting even richer.

It isn't the 20% VAT that will make private education unaffordable to middle-income earners. It is the grotesquely large drop in living standards in the past years for most people whilst others have enriched themselves quicker than at any point in the last century.

I just cannot comprehend how people can be okay with this and even defend how this is acceptable.

 

[StJabbo1]

As others have rightly pointed out, it is that society is becoming more unequal than it has been for large swathes of time over the past 30+ years.

It is fine for private schools to exist, it isn't fine for them to benefit from charitable status.

The fact that the richest in this country doubled their wealth during the financial crash then doubled it again during COVID whilst trying to spread a message that we are all in this together is disgusting, and having useful idiots like Billy above defending this system despite having to work 2 jobs to even come close to being part of that world is frankly bizarre.

We are in a cost of living crisis, inflation on food is nearly thirty ****ing percent, the cost of bills have more than doubled and rents and mortgages have put middle income earners close to living month to month.

All while companies are all reporting record profits and the rich are getting even richer.

It isn't the 20% VAT that will make private education unaffordable to middle-income earners. It is the grotesquely large drop in living standards in the past years for most people whilst others have enriched themselves quicker than at any point in the last century.

I just cannot comprehend how people can be okay with this and even defend how this is acceptable.

Where's Olivers army when we need it.

 

[SR get out of my club]

As others have rightly pointed out, it is that society is becoming more unequal than it has been for large swathes of time over the past 30+ years.

It is fine for private schools to exist, it isn't fine for them to benefit from charitable status.

The fact that the richest in this country doubled their wealth during the financial crash then doubled it again during COVID whilst trying to spread a message that we are all in this together is disgusting, and having useful idiots like Billy above defending this system despite having to work 2 jobs to even come close to being part of that world is frankly bizarre.

We are in a cost of living crisis, inflation on food is nearly thirty ****ing percent, the cost of bills have more than doubled and rents and mortgages have put middle income earners close to living month to month.

All while companies are all reporting record profits and the rich are getting even richer.

It isn't the 20% VAT that will make private education unaffordable to middle-income earners. It is the grotesquely large drop in living standards in the past years for most people whilst others have enriched themselves quicker than at any point in the last century.

I just cannot comprehend how people can be okay with this and even defend how this is acceptable.

Well, look who i being personal now…

Im not defending the system.

I can afford to send my children to private school, so if that is what I want, then I will. I dont see the issue with it being tax free, in so much as I already pay a ridiculous tax burden each year, and wont need my children going through the school system, therefore not using up my quota. So why cant people like me use the system.

Im not super rich, but i was pretty poor growing up and used that as one of my driving factors behind doing well as an adult by means of earnings. I had a ****e education, and didnt learn well in the state sstem, my learning style never does well in this system - yet you dont seem to want to cater for different educational needs which many people have.

You know nothing about me, yet assume I want to be ‘part of that world’ - twisted and deliberately biased view imo. Sending my children where I like is a personal choice, not me wanting to join some the illuminati.

And Shoot Spider-Man, stop being such a little bitch and hanging on to coattails will you., ****ing pussy. If you want to join the debate, then do so, but stupid point scoring **** is baseless. I think you’d add loads to this discussion, you seem to be the biggest mass debater here