Off Topic Politics Thread

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tomw24 said:
This has the potential to strengthen Johnson's position. If he wins by a landslide he can say he still has the backing of the majority of his party and, unless there's a change in the rules, pretty much do as he pleases for a year.
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Temporarily strengthens him but damages the party further in the long run.

I have a feeling he won’t make it to the next election unless he calls an early one himself either way.

Sidenote: I do slightly fear that if Starmer gets an FPN and quits Johnson will call a snap election against Labour while they are mid leadership election, I don’t think there is anything that can stop this from happening even though it would effectively be cheating.
 
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I guess it depends on what the people who are against him do. If circa 50 don’t vote with the government then they can’t pass anything. Depends on how hard line they are prepared to be. I expect “no very” and will just fall back into line
 
I think it’s pretty much a no win situation for the Tories.
If Johnson wins the votes the constituents of the MPs supporting him will hopefully vent their disdain at the next General Election and vote them out.
Also a continued reign by Johnson will cause further damage to the party, leaving just the hard core supporters to vote for them at the next GE.
My only fear is the same fear I voiced more than a year ago. The sooner Johnson is ousted the longer the Tory media has to rewrite history and whitewash the next incumbent and convince the gullible into keeping them in power.
People need to be constantly reminded that every nasty and dark new law that the Johnson regime has brought in has been pretty much supported 100% by those who now want to oust him. Every single one of them is no better than the man they backed at the ballot box.
 
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Is Big Dog now a Dead Dog? We must wait and see. I hope he wins by a narrow margin which will be better for labour in the next election in the meantime though Johnson will continue to **** the country up. For the country I hope he gets voted out but for Keir and the Labour Party I hope he wins
 
I have several issues with our parliamentary system but one of them is that the politicians serve their party first rather than their constituents. The use of the whip is not democratic - and in my mind at the very most should be used only to push through manifesto pledges. The rest of the time you want your MP whether you voted for him/her or not to vote with their conscience and for that vote to be announced more easily to their constituents.
This way, whatever the result of Johnson no confidence, the MPs that spoke up against him will be free to continue to oppose him openly. Then at the next election you can safely decide to vote for the person & manifesto.
I think Johnson will survive. You will start to see people trying to control him more, and others jockeying themselves for a challenge for the leadership when it eventually implodes.

The first act of any new government is to have an ethics regulator with teeth - that MPs and PMs are held accountable to what they do and say, and the style in which they lead their teams.
 
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The Ides of March said:
I recall late 1990 when the Tories removed Thatcher because of opposition to.the Poll Tax, and an accumulation of opposition to.her style. If the Tories can get rid of Thatcher, a much more capable PM than the fathead at the moment, then Tory MPs should have no doubt about what to do. IMO.this weakens his position.as opposition will grow, particularly.if the Tories are hammered in the forthcoming by-elections.
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I remember that evening in November like it were yesterday. I was walking over Waterloo Bridge to collect my boss's car from station car park. I looked along the river to Westminster and the Houses of Parliament, and thought to myself, "history is being made in those buildings tonight". One of those moments where you remember exactly what you were doing as the news unfolded.

I similarly remember a conversation with a wise old Irishman in the
pub a year before, who told me "Mark my words son, the Poll Tax will finish her."
 
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I have basically lost all hope in democracy and the current institutions.

It is absolutely clear to see that they don’t work for the country and the people.

Even replacing boris is just replacing one inept out of touch idiot with another.

When the governments solution to rising prices and inflation is to give out more free money then you know we are run by corrupt idiots.
 
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It’s sounding like this could be much closer than originally anticipated.

Telegraphs Whitehall correspondent quoted a source claiming at least 150 are confirmed as voting against Johnson, 180 is the required target.
 
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SaintStu said:
I have several issues with our parliamentary system but one of them is that the politicians serve their party first rather than their constituents. The use of the whip is not democratic - and in my mind at the very most should be used only to push through manifesto pledges. The rest of the time you want your MP whether you voted for him/her or not to vote with their conscience and for that vote to be announced more easily to their constituents.
This way, whatever the result of Johnson no confidence, the MPs that spoke up against him will be free to continue to oppose him openly. Then at the next election you can safely decide to vote for the person & manifesto.
I think Johnson will survive. You will start to see people trying to control him more, and others jockeying themselves for a challenge for the leadership when it eventually implodes.

The first act of any new government is to have an ethics regulator with teeth - that MPs and PMs are held accountable to what they do and say, and the style in which they lead their teams.
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This is one of the best posts that I have read here for ages. I totally agree with these comments and the use of whips by all parties is contrary to the idea of MPs representing their consistuents. I am not sure what we have in operation at the moment is anything like what Simon De Montfort imagined when initiated the calling of representatives from the boroughs to his parliaments. MPs should be allowed to vote against any "official" position held by a political party and I feel that this is more the case with Prime Mininsters - especially with the current uncumbent being such a maverick.

I does worry me as to whether the "Mother of all Parliaments" is actually democatic. I once went to a question and answer session with the late , great Tony Benn who was probably the greatest parliamentarian of the 20th century and he made a statement about the UK learning a ot from the Indian parliament albeit that was in the early 2000s and before they elected Modhi . Listening to some of the vox pop interviews today, I am staggered that there are so many people around who are clearly stupid enough not to appreciate just how illegal and immoral Boris's behaviour has been and still feel he should be left to get on with his job. Regardless of which political party people support, I am disappointed that people cannot see that what Boris has continued to do is categorically wrong. The warning signs were there with the proroguing of parliament regardless of Johnson's record of lying and scandal in public office. Although I cannot stand her and find her really sanctomonius, Emily Thornberry made some good points of Radio 4 this evening about Boris's fitness for (any) public office. If there is any politician in British politics who the public should have seen through, it would be Boris yet he has the common touch and people seem to be able to ignore this. Seeing that the current voting system has allowe someone so unscrupulous of Johnson to hold office, I am wondering if we are in a post-democratic age and that the general public are no longer intelligent or responsible enough to vote. The whole concept of the "popularist vote" throughout recent history in places as different as the Uk, the US, India, Poland, Brazil, Turkey and Hungary is illustrative that, for much of the 21st century, political leaders have demonstrated the morals of some of the worst of all the Roman Emperors - Boris more likely to ape one of those short-term emperors from late antiquity who were quickly cast aside once it was realised that they were just all smoke and mirrors. I am not sure that politics can really be "fixed" given that social media is transpiring to be the first technical invention which actually makes people regress. The election success of the likes of Trump, Bolsanaro and Johnson are indictative that most people are too stupid to vote responsibly. It is worrying that some people did not realise from the beginnin that Boris; tenure would end in controversy. Personally, I have always argued that the Covid situation would bring him down albeit I thought that this would come about following the enquiry of his mismanagement of the crisis as opposed to merely attending a party.

Hopefully Starmer will be next leader to go and we can have a "Leader of the Opposition" who represents the whole of the UK and not just Scotland - as admirable as Mr Blackford is.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
This thread is well worth a read. The evidence is compelling and should finish Johnson off completely:
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This is too long winded and doesn’t really seem like enough to tip people who are still supporting Boris at this stage
 
Still think he will survive but I am pleasantly surprised by just how painful today has been for the Conservatives and hope this could really go some way towards fracturing their grip on power in the longer term.
 
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