Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Was it a coincidence that Mrs Johnson wore a hat that covered the entire right side of her face, and then sat on Johnson’s left so that she couldn’t see him?
I think that alot of the journalism about the Tory MPs putting in a motion of no confidence in Boris has missed the point. These MPs are voted in by their consistuents following an election where they voted for Boris. Clearly, the public is hugely dissatisfied with the government. I feel that those MPs who are prepared to pursue a case of no confidence in Boris should be obliged to contest their seats so that it is ultimately the people they represent who have the say. All MPs voting against Boris should be made to sit a by-election.
On a broader point, I believe that this is not just a "Boris issue" but symptomatic as to the whole issue as to why the Conservative Party is wholly unsuitable to having any role in Parliament. Setting aside the fact that it is a "Unionist" party at the time that this seems increasingly irrelevent (to the English as well as the Scots, Irish and Welsh) , it is not fit for purpose. Whenever the Conservative Party has a crisis, it becomes a national crisis. I think it's time is up and maybe it would be more appropriate if the "Right" in this country was occupied by someone with the same views of Sir Keir Starmer as he is certainly not a socialist. I would have respected Tory MPs more if they had been more vocal in their displeasure and taken a stand whereby they appreciated that they are part of the problem. If they are not moving against Boris, I would suggest that they are very much part of the problem.
On a broader point, I believe that this is not just a "Boris issue" but symptomatic as to the whole issue as to why the Conservative Party is wholly unsuitable to having any role in Parliament. Setting aside the fact that it is a "Unionist" party at the time that this seems increasingly irrelevent (to the English as well as the Scots, Irish and Welsh) , it is not fit for purpose. Whenever the Conservative Party has a crisis, it becomes a national crisis. I think it's time is up and maybe it would be more appropriate if the "Right" in this country was occupied by someone with the same views of Sir Keir Starmer as he is certainly not a socialist. I would have respected Tory MPs more if they had been more vocal in their displeasure and taken a stand whereby they appreciated that they are part of the problem. If they are not moving against Boris, I would suggest that they are very much part of the problem.
It occurs to me that Boris attempting to cling on to power is exactly what Labour and the Liberal Democrats want. All the time that issues such as the Cost of Living, the war in Ukraine and post-pandemic travel chaos are having to be dealt with by the party in power, the opposition are not being blamed for anything. Meanwhile, cracks are appearing in the Conservative party, and MPs who are supporting Johnson are making themselves look rather foolish (I was going to put Jacob Rees-Mogg down as an example, but he looks silly under any circumstances).
From the opposition's viewpoint, the best result from a vote of (No) confidence in Boris, which may happen very soon, is for Boris to remain in charge, but with very few Tory MPs actually supporting him. The by-elections on Thursday 23rd June are likely to be further evidence of how low the Tories have sunk in the eyes of the electorate, but with any luck Boris will still try to stay in number 10.
As such, Labour and the Liberals are probably very happy that Boris is still there. Boris is a definite electoral asset. To the opposition, at least!
From the opposition's viewpoint, the best result from a vote of (No) confidence in Boris, which may happen very soon, is for Boris to remain in charge, but with very few Tory MPs actually supporting him. The by-elections on Thursday 23rd June are likely to be further evidence of how low the Tories have sunk in the eyes of the electorate, but with any luck Boris will still try to stay in number 10.
As such, Labour and the Liberals are probably very happy that Boris is still there. Boris is a definite electoral asset. To the opposition, at least!
Tory rebels are shooting themselves in the foot by forcing a no confidence vote now. 180 Tory MP's are not going to vote against Johnson. And then he will have a year's immunity.
I agree with you, Tom, but this Jubilee weekend may have have been the last straw for many Tory MPs (at least, those who listen to their electorate). The sight and sound of Boris being booed as he walked into the Jubilee church service may have made people realise that his popularity is at an all-time low, and the best chance of the Conservatives staying in power is for the party to remove Boris. Putting it another way, which Tory MPs will want to return to their constituencies, to face their local party members, after voting to keep Boris as PM?
I may be overestimating the intelligence of the Tory faithful, but can anyone honestly say the Boris is an electoral asset? On the other hand, those amongst us who are not Conservative voters probably want Boris to cling onto leadership, despite large numbers of MPs voting against him, just to see the Tory party crumble into insignificance. One can only hope.
I imagine that the chances of Johnson being removed are in the region of 0.01%, but that is fine - can imagine it will be much more damaging for the Conservatives in the long run if they back him today, meaning they can’t remove him for another year even if the Parliamentary Standards Committee find him guilty of misleading Parliament, if further breaches of lockdown are uncovered/investigated, if further FPNs are issued, if the Conservatives get smashed at various by-elections, further inflation / cost of living damage, further Brexit upheaval etc…
Anything that occurs in that year hit the Party as a whole instead of just Johnson should they back him.
Perhaps a number of Tory MPs will abstain in a vote of confidence regarding Johnson's suitability. "It wasn't me Guv!!" There could be a crescendo though, if the Tories get hammered in the two forthcoming by-elections, however with this being so close to the summer recess, the odds favour Johnson clinging on to power until the autumn!
I realise Bogbrush is a huge asset to the Labour Party right now, and I'm a Labour Party member. But I want him gone today, because the damage he us doing to our country's reputation, it's institutions, and it's democratic traditions will take years if not decades to repair. This man is not fit for office, and if he held a senior position in any other organisation he'd have been pushed out weeks ago.
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Ooof. Comprehensive.
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I agree entirely , but imho he will win comfortably tonight .
Why can’t they wait until the results of the 2 local elections coming up ?
if they lose them , that would help get rid of him massively . If he wins tonight , they can’t try again for another year .
I entirely hear what you say, but the problem would be in who replaces him. First of all, no one in the current Parliamentary Tory Party would be any better for the country than Johnson. There are a few outliers like Ellwood and Tugendhat, but they stand no chance of becoming leader. If Truss or Sunak or even Hunt got the job, the right wing press would rally behind them and the chances are that the Tories would scrape through again in the next GE.
If, on the other hand, Johnson wins narrowly, the Tories are toast, probably for the next 10 or 15 years. Even those who vote against him tonight will have to back him publicly, and that’s no way to engender confidence and trust from the public.
Personally, I would rather take the pain of the next 18 months and then get rid of the whole shower of neofascist ****s that Johnson and co. represent permanently.
Except the '22 rabble can change the rules anytime they choose to..
I actually agree with you for once! A narrow win for Boris is definitely the best outcome for his opponents. I'm not convinced it will be that narrow TBH. I could be way off the mark but I see a maximum of 70-80 votes for Boris out.
How about a 52:48 win for Boris. So he can understand just how resounding such a victory is. I joke of course
I have seen suggestions that if the Parliamentary Standards Committee find him guilty of misleading parliament and suspend him from the house for a certain period of time it triggers a recall election in his own constituency ? I wonder if that is true and if so (and it happens) how they find away to squirm around that
I have seen suggestions that if the Parliamentary Standards Committee find him guilty of misleading parliament and suspend him from the house for a certain period of time it triggers a recall election in his own constituency ? I wonder if that is true and if so (and it happens) how they find away to squirm around that
Given how long it took to get to 54 letters I fear you may be right. I am under no illusions about this. He will win tonight. I’d just like it to be razor thin
This has the potential to strengthen Johnson's position. If he wins by a landslide he can say he still has the backing of the majority of his party and, unless there's a change in the rules, pretty much do as he pleases for a year.
I recall late 1990 when the Tories removed Thatcher because of opposition to.the Poll Tax, and an accumulation of opposition to.her style. If the Tories can get rid of Thatcher, a much more capable PM than the fathead at the moment, then Tory MPs should have no doubt about what to do. IMO.this weakens his position.as opposition will grow, particularly.if the Tories are hammered in the forthcoming by-elections.