Off Topic Politics Thread

[Ian Thumwood]

I agree with most of this but the first sentence doesn’t make sense. This isn’t 30 years ago and there is reason to believe that it it were this country wouldn’t be picked. Just like how we are not sending people to Ukraine, Syria etc

I’m not going to pretend to know what Rwanda is like now. But don’t they have adverts during football matches and some kind of arsenal link? Visit Rwanda? I'd take that to mean things aren’t quite the same

Things like jailing opposition politicians who were tricked in to returning to Rwanda is not suggestive of a country we want to be dealing with.

Not sure if you were aware of the genocide that happened in Rwanda in the 1990s. This was barbaric and shocking on a different scale. On top of this , I believe that Rwanda also has sporadic outbreaks of Ebola.

A better idea would be to let the immigrants in who are keen to make a difference in the UK and report all the racist bigots who complain about how bad our country is to Rwanda instead. I would be more happy to vote for that proposal. Mr Farage would be first in the queue.

 

[StJabbo1]

Once Boris has been removed, I am sure Brexit will be reversed. The EU seem t have got their act together with Ukraine and it is pretty clear that there are no advanatges whatsoever with Brexit. No one in their right mind would vote for Brexit now that the implications are all too clear.

The one thing that had struck me about Brexit and the impact on the united Kingdom was that the logic has been the reverse of what it should have been. I cannot see why, with all the fiasco regarding Northern Ireland, Wales suffering economically and with Scotland incensed that they are no longer in the EU, the simplest solution would have been for the UK to remain in the EU but England to leave the UK. I am surprised that no one has thought of that. england would have got what it wanted and the remainder of the UK would not be suffering the consequences of people whose nationalism was so extensive that they were happy enough to cut their nose off to spite their face.

So land borders EU/England? Without a free trade agreement that would in include freedom of movement that the current bunch are vehemently apposed to it's a total no-go.

 

[Gregm1988]

Once Boris has been removed, I am sure Brexit will be reversed. The EU seem t have got their act together with Ukraine and it is pretty clear that there are no advanatges whatsoever with Brexit. No one in their right mind would vote for Brexit now that the implications are all too clear.

The one thing that had struck me about Brexit and the impact on the united Kingdom was that the logic has been the reverse of what it should have been. I cannot see why, with all the fiasco regarding Northern Ireland, Wales suffering economically and with Scotland incensed that they are no longer in the EU, the simplest solution would have been for the UK to remain in the EU but England to leave the UK. I am surprised that no one has thought of that. england would have got what it wanted and the remainder of the UK would not be suffering the consequences of people whose nationalism was so extensive that they were happy enough to cut their nose off to spite their face.

A truly baffling post this. The suggestion of England leaving the United Kingdom and Europe and the rest staying the Europe is quite astonishing

You would get all the same border issues as now. Except more

It also casually ignores the entire history of the union. An organisation of all the other countries could not be the U.K.
It would have to be some kind of Celtic Confederation or something like that. Or all stand alone countries that would be even more weak and irrelevant than we already are

“No one in their right mind” is both a bold and incorrect claim. People would still do it. Such a vote could well still be close especially once the spin started

I simply can’t see anyone reversing it. Did you watch 2019. A flimsy Brexit stance sunk labour in their core constituencies and handed a massive majority to Boris. Reversing it so soon would be political suicide for a Conservative PM. And a Labour one

I admire your wishful thinking and too wish people would change their mind on this. I just don’t see it

 

[Ian Thumwood]

So land borders EU/England? Without a free trade agreement that would in include freedom of movement that the current bunch are vehemently apposed to it's a total no-go.[/

St Jabbo

I understand that but do you not think it is something that England deserves for the selfishness of the Breixt vote? I wonder if a "Celtic alliance" between Ireland, Wales and Scotland would out those countries in far better stead than continuing with a separate Irish Republic and the UK. Not sure just how the UK benefits the other countries.The current situation in Ireland is so bad after Brexit that surely a united Ireland is something that all sides of the polical spectrum across the Irish Sea would see as advantageous. The "little Englander" mentality as been entirely damaging for all parties.

 

[Gregm1988]

Things like jailing opposition politicians who were tricked in to returning to Rwanda is not suggestive of a country we want to be dealing with.

Not sure if you were aware of the genocide that happened in Rwanda in the 1990s. This was barbaric and shocking on a different scale. On top of this , I believe that Rwanda also has sporadic outbreaks of Ebola.

A better idea would be to let the immigrants in who are keen to make a difference in the UK and report all the racist bigots who complain about how bad our country is to Rwanda instead. I would be more happy to vote for that proposal. Mr Farage would be first in the queue.

Report? Or do you mean deport? Presumably a joke because that would make you more draconian than Patel and exactly why people on the right wing fringes are terrified of people on the left. Talk like that

Of course I am aware of the genocide. It isn’t happening now. Your sentence suggested how awful it would be if we sent people there during the genocide. But that isn’t what is happening. It still isn’t good.

I wonder what the polling on this is. Because the whole thing sounds so awful I am surprised it even got to this stage. It shouldn’t have got past white board stage. Almost sounds like a bit from something like the office, parks and rec, the thick of it or the one with high bonneville that has just gone too far

 

[Ian Thumwood]

A truly baffling post this. The suggestion of England leaving the United Kingdom and Europe and the rest staying the Europe is quite astonishing

You would get all the same border issues as now. Except more

It also casually ignores the entire history of the union. An organisation of all the other countries could not be the U.K.
It would have to be some kind of Celtic Confederation or something like that. Or all stand alone countries that would be even more weak and irrelevant than we already are

“No one in their right mind” is both a bold and incorrect claim. People would still do it. Such a vote could well still be close especially once the spin started

I simply can’t see anyone reversing it. Did you watch 2019. A flimsy Brexit stance sunk labour in their core constituencies and handed a massive majority to Boris. Reversing it so soon would be political suicide for a Conservative PM. And a Labour one

I admire your wishful thinking and too wish people would change their mind on this. I just don’t see it

Gregg

I appreciate it is a pie-in-the-sky suggestion and was put out there to be provocative. However, surely you can see just how resentful people in Ireland, Sctoland and Wales must be of the English continuing to thing about themselves only? The issue of borders would be no less peoblematic than we are encountering with Brexit but I think that England shoukd take the pain for an extremely bad decision. We have tucked up the people in Scotland and practially ahceived the impossible in Northern Ireland with a sizeable minority of the Protestant population seeing a united Ireland as preferable. Instead, we have a government which has aligned itself with the fascist bigots like the DUP .

For me, I feel that Brexit has revealed the ugly and unsavory truth about the mentality of so many of the English. To be honest, it does make me feel ashamed. .

 

[Gregm1988]

St Jabbo

I understand that but do you not think it is something that England deserves for the selfishness of the Breixt vote? I wonder if a "Celtic alliance" between Ireland, Wales and Scotland would out those countries in far better stead than continuing with a separate Irish Republic and the UK. Not sure just how the UK benefits the other countries.The current situation in Ireland is so bad after Brexit that surely a united Ireland is something that all sides of the polical spectrum across the Irish Sea would see as advantageous. The "little Englander" mentality as been entirely damaging for all parties.

45% of England did not vote for Brexit . So why should England “deserve” it. Madness

Oh - and Wales voted leave

 

[Libby]

People need to get over the Brexit thing imo. It's happened and it's not gonna change any time in the near to medium future.

 

[Gregm1988]

People need to get over the Brexit thing imo. It's happened and it's not gonna change any time in the near to medium future.

Exactly. It was something like 25 years from Maastricht that the referendum happened. No doubt the rebels wanted to change things sooner. We are looking at a similar timeframe I think

The suggestion that it will be reversed after Boris leaves is one of the more crazy things I have seen written here. There is no official mandate for it and no way of proving one as no major party is going to stand on that in the next election. It just isn’t happening. It shouldn’t have been allowed to happen in the way it did but it has

 

[rednright]

Gregg

I appreciate it is a pie-in-the-sky suggestion and was put out there to be provocative. However, surely you can see just how resentful people in Ireland, Sctoland and Wales must be of the English continuing to thing about themselves only? The issue of borders would be no less peoblematic than we are encountering with Brexit but I think that England shoukd take the pain for an extremely bad decision. We have tucked up the people in Scotland and practially ahceived the impossible in Northern Ireland with a sizeable minority of the Protestant population seeing a united Ireland as preferable. Instead, we have a government which has aligned itself with the fascist bigots like the DUP .

For me, I feel that Brexit has revealed the ugly and unsavory truth about the mentality of so many of the English. To be honest, it does make me feel ashamed. .

The Welsh voted for Brexit so why is this all about the English?

 

[rednright]

The whole idea is disgraceful, disgusting, and brings shame to this country. Apart from the similarities to the Nazi plan, the point missed by a lot of people is that it will make absolutely zero difference to the people traffickers who will continue to treat those poor refugees like **** while they exploit them.

I'm not sure anyone would prefer this but given the current position is unsustainable what would be a preferred alternative?

 

[Romsey_Saint]

Things like jailing opposition politicians who were tricked in to returning to Rwanda is not suggestive of a country we want to be dealing with.

Not sure if you were aware of the genocide that happened in Rwanda in the 1990s. This was barbaric and shocking on a different scale. On top of this , I believe that Rwanda also has sporadic outbreaks of Ebola.

A better idea would be to let the immigrants in who are keen to make a difference in the UK and report all the racist bigots who complain about how bad our country is to Rwanda instead. I would be more happy to vote for that proposal. Mr Farage would be first in the queue.

As someone who has lived and worked in East Africa over the past 20 years, initially in war zones in North Uganda and South Sudan, l have had the opportunity to visit many countries in that region. Without any doubt whatsoever, the most beautiful, clean and least corrupt country is Rwanda and the sort of useless ****ing ignorant comments made by Europeans who, at best may have visited a game reserve in Kenya or South Africa, are beyond contempt.

If you do not know your subject matter, l suggest you keep quiet on the subject. FYI, l worked in Rwandan refugee camps too, but l won't waste my time telling you the subject matter.

 

[San Tejón]

Israel is another country named as sending asylum seekers to Rwanda and Uganda (not the confirmed destinations but strongly believed).
Many were “voluntarily” deported, but that might have had something to do with another option, which was “go to jail”.
Interesting to see that enforced deportations have been suspended by the Israeli Supreme Court.
Johnson is expecting a legal challenge to be made.
Is it too late to put Priti Patel’s parents on the first plane out?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61106231

 

[San Tejón]

A Human Rights Advocate, in an abridged speech about how Australia send asylum seekers to Narau and being troubled by the way other countries see this practice as being a good way to deal with refugees.

https://fb.watch/cpdl5CL0pv/

 

[Ian Thumwood]

As someone who has lived and worked in East Africa over the past 20 years, initially in war zones in North Uganda and South Sudan, l have had the opportunity to visit many countries in that region. Without any doubt whatsoever, the most beautiful, clean and least corrupt country is Rwanda and the sort of useless ****ing ignorant comments made by Europeans who, at best may have visited a game reserve in Kenya or South Africa, are beyond contempt.

If you do not know your subject matter, l suggest you keep quiet on the subject. FYI, l worked in Rwandan refugee camps too, but l won't waste my time telling you the subject matter.

Thanks for this post, RomseySaint. I have never been to Africa so I will obviously have to defer to your grater knowledge. However, the report on Channel Four news last night was far less complimentary and a quick search on line will reveal that opposition politicians have disappeared or been murdered in suspicious circumstances, including a beheading. Whilst I am aware that there are far worse countries as options, this is still a very dire proposal howver you spell it out.

It is quite interesting how countries are perceived as being marginally worse or more suspect than others. I have been doing some research for a holiday I wanted to organise next year and I was assured that Mindinao in Philippines was safe. It all depends upon what you consider to be safe. It is clear that the circumstances are more favourable now than before the collapse of ISIS but the reality is that kidnappings are endemic and the improved circumstances are amsked by the fact that PH were badly affected by COVID. Ijust find it intiguing how the security situation is described. HM Govt recommends not visiting this region of PH which is a shame as it is where you are going to find the Philippines Eagle. It does illustrate just how fluid the situation is in parts of Africa, Asia and South America. What might be credible as a destination in 2022 could become a hell-hole very quickly. I would guess that the countries being fled must be pretty terrible if Rwanda is seen as a credible destination. In my opnion, it is hugely unethical and maybe more so because it is weapons from Europe and America that has made refugees flee some areas. Issues like LGBTQ are hardly going to be better in Rwanda than in Europe and the cultures are unlikely to be similar than those the people are fleeing from.

I can understand the comment about the common trope about Africa and the whole "Heart of Darkness" issue yet, no matter how your present this proposal, it looks shockingly unethical and, as discussed, something that comes froma satire on TV. It is disturbing that some voters find these proposals acceptable but maybe it underscores just how divorced we have become from being a tolerant and liberal country.

 

[Romsey_Saint]

Thanks for this post, RomseySaint. I have never been to Africa so I will obviously have to defer to your grater knowledge. However, the report on Channel Four news last night was far less complimentary and a quick search on line will reveal that opposition politicians have disappeared or been murdered in suspicious circumstances, including a beheading. Whilst I am aware that there are far worse countries as options, this is still a very dire proposal howver you spell it out.

It is quite interesting how countries are perceived as being marginally worse or more suspect than others. I have been doing some research for a holiday I wanted to organise next year and I was assured that Mindinao in Philippines was safe. It all depends upon what you consider to be safe. It is clear that the circumstances are more favourable now than before the collapse of ISIS but the reality is that kidnappings are endemic and the improved circumstances are amsked by the fact that PH were badly affected by COVID. Ijust find it intiguing how the security situation is described. HM Govt recommends not visiting this region of PH which is a shame as it is where you are going to find the Philippines Eagle. It does illustrate just how fluid the situation is in parts of Africa, Asia and South America. What might be credible as a destination in 2022 could become a hell-hole very quickly. I would guess that the countries being fled must be pretty terrible if Rwanda is seen as a credible destination. In my opnion, it is hugely unethical and maybe more so because it is weapons from Europe and America that has made refugees flee some areas. Issues like LGBTQ are hardly going to be better in Rwanda than in Europe and the cultures are unlikely to be similar than those the people are fleeing from.

I can understand the comment about the common trope about Africa and the whole "Heart of Darkness" issue yet, no matter how your present this proposal, it looks shockingly unethical and, as discussed, something that comes froma satire on TV. It is disturbing that some voters find these proposals acceptable but maybe it underscores just how divorced we have become from being a tolerant and liberal country.

Paul Kagame was perceived as "a breath of fresh air' when he came to power and did so much to heal the grievances between the two warring tribes (incidentally fermented by the French) but, as with all leaders too long in power (ref. Putin) has become increasingly dictatorial and unpleasant (also take a look 'next door' at dear (not so) Museveni and Salva Kiir in Sth Sudan - the latter whom l have met and counted l still had 4 fingers and a thumb after shaking his hand.

If this crazy government scheme comes off, all those single young men may not find it quite so bad when they get to Kigali - Rwandese women are reckoned to be some of the most beautiful in Africa... from close visual inspection l can confirm there may well be some truth on that point of view.

 

[StJabbo1]

Israel is another country named as sending asylum seekers to Rwanda and Uganda (not the confirmed destinations but strongly believed).
Many were “voluntarily” deported, but that might have had something to do with another option, which was “go to jail”.
Interesting to see that enforced deportations have been suspended by the Israeli Supreme Court.
Johnson is expecting a legal challenge to be made.
Is it too late to put Priti Patel’s parents on the first plane out?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61106231

I wonder if she gets full parental approval? Is she a chip off the block or some sort of freak spawn of the devil abouration.

 

[saintrichie123]

You must log in or register to see media

 

[shoot_spiderman]

I’m convinced that every appalling thing this government does convinces some previous Labour voters that ALL politicians are corrupt an that they shouldn’t bother to vote

I just hope it convinces some previous Tory voters to vote for someone else

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Although I think that we should not be celebrating military action, it is quite fascinating to see just how poorly the Russian army has performed. I get the fact that the are conscripts who probably do not wish to be in Ukraine and also appreciate that the resistance they have faced has been unexpected, but the issue of logistics, performance of hardward and general co-ordination has been shockingly bad. I am not sure that anyone really expected that. The number of generals killed in action also strikes me as being unusual. This week the sinking of the cruiser has been the principle revelation. I am surprised that ukraine managed lang at leat one missleon to this ship but, if you take the Russian view that there was a fire on board, the fact that this affected the armaments so comprehensively says a lot about the quality of their sailors. The worrying thing is the threat of nuclear weapons which I am not convinced is as idle as many believe and I cannot understand why the Russian airforce has not been able to be decisive.

I did not appreciate that the Roman general Pompey had earned his reputation in this area of Europe nearly 2100 years ago albeit he was operating a bit to the south of the Black Sea. Reading Adrian Goldworthy's book "In the name of Rome" has been quite interesting in light of Putin's invasion as this teams qith the miltary campaigns of 15 Roman generals. Putin's treatment of Ukraine is akin to what Caesar did in Gaul. Let's hope that the final result is totally different.