Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Completely respect your point of view. I just view it differently. Good luck anyway.
The Good Friday Agreement was brokered and based on the premise that both N.I. and the R.O.I. remained members of the EU. Your knowledge of cross-border activity will tell you that the effective absence of a border was the only way it could be sold to both Unionists and Nationalists.
Moved here where it belongs.
The Johnson has taken misinformation, prevarication, lies and deceit to a new level along with his sycophantic, incompetent and corrupt cabinet. Completely outdone anything in the past. Ask his ex colleagues, employers, wives and girlfriends. Oh I left out mendacious and philandering.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/the-lies-of-boris-johnson-7394440
https://costofjohnson.com/
The Johnson has taken misinformation, prevarication, lies and deceit to a new level along with his sycophantic, incompetent and corrupt cabinet. Completely outdone anything in the past. Ask his ex colleagues, employers, wives and girlfriends. Oh I left out mendacious and philandering.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/the-lies-of-boris-johnson-7394440
https://costofjohnson.com/
I think it is really intriguing how the departure from the EU is jeopardising the United Kingdom. The disadvantages of the EU surely most also apply to the UK but it is strange that Scotland appears to prefer rejoining the EU than remaining in the UK. What I think never get pushed is the fact that the EU is a brilliant idea yet the politicians involved with it are bureaucrats who happen to be really bad at their jobs.
I voted to remain in the EU but the subsequent failure with the vaccines and the spiteful nature of the likes of Macron and UvdL do not show the EU in a good light. Unfortunately, I think it does allow the Brits to look much better than they deserve and , of course, this behaviour will look good in the less credible newspapers like the Express and Mail. The detrimental effect on trade will not become apparent until after Covid by which time I think that Boris will have been voted out of office. The return to "normality" will not be for another 2-3 years.We will not really witness the full impact until about five years time but it will be interesting to see what kind of EU we have by then and if other countries attempt to leave.
If you want a football analogy, the EU is like a Top 6 football team that is hamstrung by inertia with a management structure that finds it difficult to deliver what the fans want.They strive to win the title but are a bit like Arsenal and there is an understanding that, no matter how cosmopolitan they are, it is not going to happen. To make matters worse, the EU see themselves as being like Man City. By comparison, the UK has retreated to become the yappy and unpopular underdog whose bark is worst than it's bite yet punches above it's weight for a short while. If you like, Boris is the political equivalent of Dave Bassett when he managed Wimbledon. It was entertaining for a while before everyone eventually realised that they were not very good and whilst they ostensibly promised to deliver football, the performances suggest the opposite.In the end, the pretense could no longer be sustained. Everyone knows what happened to Wimbledon and the analogy with the club losing it's identity and the breakup of the UK is plain to see. Boris's Tories are very much the new Crazy Gang.
I do blame the EU for Brexit. The EU politicians did not do their job well enough and let down the British people. I do not think Brexit appealed to people who had thought the argument through and was really driven by nationalism and a belief that the English (as opposed to the British) could manage things better. You cannot blame Scotland for wanting out and it is a shame that Sturgeon has such an unfortunate character which is perceived as being anti-English that this prevents her from being a figurehead around which sensible folk can rally to rejoin the EU. Without doubt, Brexit has been a disaster for the EU too and you just hope that post parties ultimately see sense.
I voted to remain in the EU but the subsequent failure with the vaccines and the spiteful nature of the likes of Macron and UvdL do not show the EU in a good light. Unfortunately, I think it does allow the Brits to look much better than they deserve and , of course, this behaviour will look good in the less credible newspapers like the Express and Mail. The detrimental effect on trade will not become apparent until after Covid by which time I think that Boris will have been voted out of office. The return to "normality" will not be for another 2-3 years.We will not really witness the full impact until about five years time but it will be interesting to see what kind of EU we have by then and if other countries attempt to leave.
If you want a football analogy, the EU is like a Top 6 football team that is hamstrung by inertia with a management structure that finds it difficult to deliver what the fans want.They strive to win the title but are a bit like Arsenal and there is an understanding that, no matter how cosmopolitan they are, it is not going to happen. To make matters worse, the EU see themselves as being like Man City. By comparison, the UK has retreated to become the yappy and unpopular underdog whose bark is worst than it's bite yet punches above it's weight for a short while. If you like, Boris is the political equivalent of Dave Bassett when he managed Wimbledon. It was entertaining for a while before everyone eventually realised that they were not very good and whilst they ostensibly promised to deliver football, the performances suggest the opposite.In the end, the pretense could no longer be sustained. Everyone knows what happened to Wimbledon and the analogy with the club losing it's identity and the breakup of the UK is plain to see. Boris's Tories are very much the new Crazy Gang.
I do blame the EU for Brexit. The EU politicians did not do their job well enough and let down the British people. I do not think Brexit appealed to people who had thought the argument through and was really driven by nationalism and a belief that the English (as opposed to the British) could manage things better. You cannot blame Scotland for wanting out and it is a shame that Sturgeon has such an unfortunate character which is perceived as being anti-English that this prevents her from being a figurehead around which sensible folk can rally to rejoin the EU. Without doubt, Brexit has been a disaster for the EU too and you just hope that post parties ultimately see sense.
How was it the EU failed the British people? I'm reading through this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit and this https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105
In the disaster stakes the UK is certainly suffering to a far greater extent than the EU.
To the EU blame add the leave campaign lies, the gobshite Farage, the Barclay brothers, Rothermere, Murdock and the Express group plus Cambridge Analytica's manipulation. Then you have a gullible and deluded electorate voting without a qualified majority in place.
Don’t forget agent Marrs and the agent BBC are paid to debunk anything against this sleaze government.
Well, I think that the EU did a remarkable job in failing to present a decent enough case for the UK to remain. The argument for remaining was far too complacent and did not adequately defend itself against the lies from the likes of Farage. Quite how Farage managed to retain any credibility for quite so long is something that will forever stagger me, especially when the European Parliament had it in their gift to discipline him for a record level of non-attendance on committee and taking a salary when he blatantly was not carrying out the functions he was being paid, for. Farage should have been serving a prison sentence and not spearheading a campaign to quit the EU.
The fact that so many people in the UK (and on the continent for that matter) feel that the EU is not democratic and does not represent them should be a shock for a body that is supposedly working in the interests of people throughout Europe. This argument is not unique to the UK and i have heard it is France too. When the EU has implemented so many measures that have been to people's benefit and has regenerated areas of Europe where the economy is depressed,the positives are explicit. Very few people either in the EU or UK seemed eloquent enough to present this side of the argument. The fact that the UK always seemed to be at loggerheads with the EU according to the media always got more attention than those elements where the UK benefitted.
In the end, the whole process of Brexit became so protracted and negative that by the time of the crisis with vaccines, most people could appreciate that the EU had some serious failings. The tone of discussions by both parties during the negotiations in 2019 were a really bad example of democracy at work. Neither party covered themselves in glory. I would have liked the EU to have recognised that it has issues to address in 2016 and that it took steps to ensure that these were dealt with.
I suppose that, in the end, the sad thing is that common sense did not prevail. The argument to remain within the EU should have been cast iron and the subsequent elevation of Boris Johnson to PM is a prime example as to why the argument for sovereignty was flawed. With all the allegations of sleaze coming out this week, I am sure that most people who voted for leave would not have voted for a government as immoral at the current one in the UK. I just feel that the referendum was something that need not have happened had the EU managed to present itself in a better light. What is interesting is that the current incumbent leaders in Europe such as Merkel and Macron are on their way out. I would expect the next generation of EU to be far more successful and less likely to rock the boat with the remaining member states. This is when we will really start to appreciate what we are missing out on and why, with the emergence of China as the preeminent super-power, we will find ourselves totally alone and exposed.
The one area I totally concur with is the idiocy of the British public when it comes to voting. We have become the nation of Proles where the electorate are no longer capable of recognising the decisions which affect them. As I said, the decision to remain in the EU was a no-brainer but the I fear the situation will get worse. We have a Prime Minister who is unfit for office yet his is still riding high in the polls when, after a train crash of the management of Covid, he would never have lasted this long 20-30 years ago. John Major now seems like a paragon of virtue. I really think we are experiencing an era where , because of the rapid dissemination of disinformation, we must start questioning whether democracy is working. As the election of Trump and Brexit have shown, democracy can fail spectacularly. We are entering an age of ignorance and intolerance where seemingly "mainstream" parties like the Conservatives and the Republicans can be reckless, immoral and dangerous in a fashion previously only experienced in the fringes of politics. There was a very good piece that I read about 18 months ago in a Left wing journal which made a very good case for this being attributable to "Liberalism" and the fact that this had ultimately marginalised large swathes of working class votes. Given that a significant proportion of the support for Brexit came from traditional working class areas where the electorate were duped by snake oil merchants like Farage, it does make you despair that whole communities can be made to vote for something that is fundamentally against their own interests. Unfortunately, it does say a lot for the EU, with it's connections with banking and capitalism in general, that this has happened on their watch. Had the EU been resolutely socialist in it's outlook, something like Brexit would never have happened. Regrettably, the EU is and is perceived to be an organisation which it ultimately more centred towards business than people even if it's decisions are well intended. Ultimately, the EU will fail because it's interests are always more biased towards economic as opposed to social issues.
If this is true, he needs to resign straight away. 
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And here’s another reason why this shockingly dreadful government should go:
https://fb.watch/56fPNv9KkB/
https://fb.watch/56fPNv9KkB/
No surprises there or in the refusal for an urgent inquiry not just to apportion blame but also to prepare for the next pandemic.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...t-is-too-busy-for-covid-inquiry-prompts-anger