Off Topic Politics Thread

[ChilcoSaint]

To be honest Chilco, you probably know my view, in that I’m not really arsed about the politics, it is just a massive chunk rich, that the only attacks, many of a personal nature, go towards the incumbent Government, most of which are certainly not proven at the time of the post, and that is what irks me.

Surely an equitable view on Politics would be to call out all the **** that happens, you know, to support a balanced view and add to a rounded debate

It isn’t equitable and shows the people up who do so for what they really are.

Who knew I had more of a social conscious than I thought. I always did have a soft spot for Michael Foot after all.

Anyhow, I’m off to shred lots of branches from trees i cut back a while ago, have great days all...

What you say is fair enough, but one thing to remember is that most of what the Government are accused of turns out to be fairly accurate. Something else to remember is that this forum didn’t exist when we last had a Labour government, but I can guarantee that if it did, then they would also have been the subject of many accusations. I have made my opposition to the Iraq war clear on here many times, and I still believe Tony Blair should be tried as a war criminal.

As for Sturgeon, I agree it will be interesting to see how her supporters react in the coming days.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Just accept that they are are all a back stabbing load of self interested, lying bastards and you've cracked politics.

 

[Archers Road]

If she's guilty of what she is accused of then she deserves to be attacked Billy. I have no dog in this fight but feel free to skag her off if you feel the need.

While we're on the subject it would be nice if Keir Starmer actually grew a pair for once.

I would like to hear Keir Starmer banging the drum for the NHS, and reminding us all of the debt of gratitude we owe to Aneurin Bevan. Being named after an historic Labour figure himself, that shouldn’t be too much to ask.

People are incredibly, almost wilfully ignorant though. How many Brits even know who Nye Bevan was? How many care?

 

[Archers Road]

Just accept that they are are all a back stabbing load of self interested, lying bastards and you've cracked politics.

What, humans you mean? It’s true, we are, but most also have redeeming qualities. Perhaps it is these we should all be focusing on.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

What, humans you mean? It’s true, we are, but most also have redeeming qualities. Perhaps it is these we should all be focusing on.

The ones with redeeming features don't go into politics unfortunately.

 

[San Tejón]

Notice how, if you actually watched QT the other night, Fiona Bruce also directed a question specifically about Government failure of PPE straight to Annalise Dodds to answer as a way to stick the knife in further, despite not making up any part of the Government?

See, we can all put a biased slant on things, or sensibly accept that the BBC are in actual fact neutral enough to cause an argument of bias from either side. Or instead allow little snippets that fit the rhetoric of what you choose to believe.

You’re right, it is always possible to slant things.
I stopped watching QT along time ago when it was blatantly obvious that the panel was being slanted in favour of the right side of politics, the Tory MP, the Daily Mail journalist (or should that be fantasist) and the big business Tory donor and one Labour MP and a comedian.

Just because the host might ask a difficult question, from time to time, there is no ignoring how often, over the years (including her predecessor) the host so often bales out a Tory MP, by throwing them a lifeline, whilst helping to undermine others.
Clearly our opinion on neutrality is different.
If the BBC was truly neutral they would host this show (and other political shows) as they do Have I Got News For You, and have guest presenters who aren’t lifelong supporters of the Tory party.

 

[SR get out of my club]

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[San Tejón]

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[The Ides of March]

I think it will be interesting to see what happens with Wee Jimmy Krankie. If it materialises she has broken the ministerial code, she should go, especially as she so vehemently criticised the SMP who came down to London with Covid and said she should resign.

There seems to be a horrible campaign to smear Nicola Sturgeon as much as possible. It is disgusting. Why don't they give the same treatment to the Tories, Labout and the Lib Dems? The Scottish voted in overwhelming numbers to stay in the EU, and that has been denied them by the bully boys in Westminster. I fervently believe they would have won the independence referendum had the celebrities like Beckham kept their noses out of the affair. I hope the Scottish people can see this is a stitch up by the Westminster parties because they are worried if the SNP won a massive victory in May's election.

Aside from the SNP issues, I feel Labout would do a lot better in Scotland if the Scottish Labout party became a totally independent party from the Westminster overlords. If it did it could put Scotland at the top of its agenda, it would start to win back seats. This relationship could be similar to that between Germany's Christian Democrats and Bavaria's Christian Social Uniion.

 

[Jos Say No]

There seems to be a horrible campaign to smear Nicola Sturgeon as much as possible. It is disgusting. Why don't they give the same treatment to the Tories, Labout and the Lib Dems? The Scottish voted in overwhelming numbers to stay in the EU, and that has been denied them by the bully boys in Westminster. I fervently believe they would have won the independence referendum had the celebrities like Beckham kept their noses out of the affair. I hope the Scottish people can see this is a stitch up by the Westminster parties because they are worried if the SNP won a massive victory in May's election.

Aside from the SNP issues, I feel Labout would do a lot better in Scotland if the Scottish Labout party became a totally independent party from the Westminster overlords. If it did it could put Scotland at the top of its agenda, it would start to win back seats. This relationship could be similar to that between Germany's Christian Democrats and Bavaria's Christian Social Uniion.

Absolutely, I forgot Alex Salmond was a staunch Tory, in coalition with them to bring this against Sturgeon as much as possible right in the middle of what he has been fighting to achieve for Scotland his whole political career!

Possibly a case of the blinkers?

I don’t recall any claims of ‘smear campaigns’ against Priti Patel recently, just commonly accepted anger that she should have gone for what she did.

Ultimately, one was judged to have broken the Ministerial code, the other might very well be soon. Reserve your outcries of disgusting treatment until the hearing is concluded, then you can treat both Patel and Sturgeon in the same manner, whatever that may be.

 

[The Ides of March]

Absolutely, I forgot Alex Salmond was a staunch Tory, in coalition with them to bring this against Sturgeon as much as possible right in the middle of what he has been fighting to achieve for Scotland his whole political career!

Possibly a case of the blinkers?

I don’t recall any claims of ‘smear campaigns’ against Priti Patel recently, just commonly accepted anger that she should have gone for what she did.

Ultimately, one was judged to have broken the Ministerial code, the other might very well be soon. Reserve your outcries of disgusting treatment until the hearing is concluded, then you can treat both Patel and Sturgeon in the same manner, whatever that may be.

I admit to being slightly biased but regardless of the Sturgeon/Salmond situatión, Johnson's Union Team are going to try and tarnish the SNP as much as possible. The Tories craved "independence" from the EU yet are denying this to Scotland. Double standards.

 

[saintrichie123]

What a nasty piece of work Farage is.

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[Archers Road]

What a nasty piece of work Farage is.

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Interesting times for Mr Farage. He’s too crafty a politician to go Full Trump and start openly endorsing the prejudices of his erstwhile followers, and now that the Conservative Government has embraced the sort of right wing populism that hides behind a veneer of phony respectability, he’s pretty much left with nowhere to go.

Probably best for everyone if he just ****ed off tbh.

 

[AberdeenSaint]

I admit to being slightly biased but regardless of the Sturgeon/Salmond situatión, Johnson's Union Team are going to try and tarnish the SNP as much as possible. The Tories craved "independence" from the EU yet are denying this to Scotland. Double standards.

Yep - `Better Together` didn`t extend to Europe.

 

[Jos Say No]

I admit to being slightly biased but regardless of the Sturgeon/Salmond situatión, Johnson's Union Team are going to try and tarnish the SNP as much as possible. The Tories craved "independence" from the EU yet are denying this to Scotland. Double standards.

Well I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make in relation to mine. I was referencing political wrongdoing and somehow you’re on smear campaigns and hypothetical tarnishing of the SNP for something that has nothing to do with the debate around the Union.

Your speculation doesn’t serve any purpose other than to say what your thoughts are around Scottish independence. But even on that, tarnished or not by Westminster, the SNP will likely still try and push ahead with IndyRef2, whoever is in charge, as it is in their Party DNA.

 

[The Ides of March]

Well I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make in relation to mine. I was referencing political wrongdoing and somehow you’re on smear campaigns and hypothetical tarnishing of the SNP for something that has nothing to do with the debate around the Union.

Your speculation doesn’t serve any purpose other than to say what your thoughts are around Scottish independence. But even on that, tarnished or not by Westminster, the SNP will likely still try and push ahead with IndyRef2, whoever is in charge, as it is in their Party DNA.

Hypothetical tarnishing of the SNP? It is a fact. It is in black and white, and is similar to that delivered by the media in the run-up to the 2019 General Election with regard to Labour in general and Corbyn in particular.

I have not been following Patel at all save to say she serves as a tool to deflect criticism from Johnson.

Regarding the debate about the Unión, a mature forward thinking Government, of what ever colour would grant the Scottish people another independence referendum, and would encourage them to go for it. Alas, the Westminster parties (Labour, Tories and Lib Dems) are fearful of that. Ask yourself why? In Labour' s case, the return to Labour in Scotland might just help Labour form a Government when the media turn against the Tories. However, how does a Westminster based party serve the interests of Scotland? It doesn't. As for the Tories it is all about power, and we have seen that throughout the ages through divide and rule, something their media friends are doing by hyping up alleged divisions and cover-ups within the SNP.

 

[Bob's mate]

There seems to be a horrible campaign to smear Nicola Sturgeon as much as possible. It is disgusting.

If there is a campaign to oust Nicola Sturgeon then perhaps it's justifiable. A Special Inquiry had to be set up to look into why the Scottish Government acted 'unlawfully' in the internal investigation of Alex Salmond after which he was awarded £512,250 of tax payers money-the total cost running into millions. The Inquiry is looking into the decisions made by Leslie Evans, the Permanent Secretary to the Scottish Government and the role played by Nicola Sturgeon. That's the same Lesley Evans who sent the results of the internal investigation to Police Scotland and if you remember, Alex Salmond faced these charges in court and was acquitted on all counts.

Alex Salmond in giving evidence under oath to the committee last week said,

"...that the evidence supports a deliberate, prolonged, malicious and concerted effort amongst a range of individuals within the Scottish Government and the SNP to damage my reputation, even to the extent of having me imprisoned.

That includes, for the avoidance of doubt, Peter Murrell (chief executive), Ian McCann (compliance officer) and Sue Ruddick (chief operating officer) of the SNP together with Liz Lloyd, the First Minister's Chief of Staff.

There are others who, for legal reasons, I am not allowed to name.

The real cost to the Scottish people runs into many millions of pounds and yet no-one in this entire process has uttered the simple words which are necessary on occasions to renew and refresh democratic institutions - 'I Resign'.

The committee now has the opportunity to address that position"

https://www.effiedeans.com/2021/02/resign-sturgeon.html

 

[Jos Say No]

Hypothetical tarnishing of the SNP? It is a fact. It is in black and white, and is similar to that delivered by the media in the run-up to the 2019 General Election with regard to Labour in general and Corbyn in particular.

I have not been following Patel at all save to say she serves as a tool to deflect criticism from Johnson.

Regarding the debate about the Unión, a mature forward thinking Government, of what ever colour would grant the Scottish people another independence referendum, and would encourage them to go for it. Alas, the Westminster parties (Labour, Tories and Lib Dems) are fearful of that. Ask yourself why? In Labour' s case, the return to Labour in Scotland might just help Labour form a Government when the media turn against the Tories. However, how does a Westminster based party serve the interests of Scotland? It doesn't. As for the Tories it is all about power, and we have seen that throughout the ages through divide and rule, something their media friends are doing by hyping up alleged divisions and cover-ups within the SNP.

You’re still missing the point that the initial topic was nothing to do with the SNP’s reputation, it was about political wrongdoing and breaking of the ministerial code.

It would be like if Jacinda Ardern suddenly funnelled all Government funds to her account, but you were saying people were tarnishing her because they were jealous of the effectiveness of her Covid response.

The two just don’t add up and you’ve started a separate debate about the hypothetical tarnishing of the SNP, that’s what I was getting at (yes I’m sticking with that line, otherwise for balance you need to look into the tarnishing of Westminster by the SNP themselves, or see it as Nationalist vs anti-devolutionist point scoring). It’s not a problem that you’ve done that, it just has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

 

[The Ides of March]

I admit to talking at the opposite spectrum to you Jos. Perhaps the SNP have been taught masterful lessons in cover-ups by the parties at Westminster. I think we are going to remain poles apart on that issue. So the SNP are mired in controversy but there is a certain element within the media, that is doing a considerable about of sh**-stirring in the hope that it stops the SNP bandwagon in the run-up to May's assembly elections while at the same time gliding over contracts given to Tory party sonora in relation to a plethora of services. I just hope the SNP can sort this out so that the minds of the Scottish people in electing a Government for the Scottish people and not oñe subservient to a Westminster clique that is at odds with Scotland's needs.

 

[Bob's mate]

So the SNP are mired in controversy but there is a certain element within the media, that is doing a considerable about of sh**-stirring in the hope that it stops the SNP bandwagon in the run-up to May's assembly elections...

The media has had plenty of time to stir things up as the inquiry into the Scottish Government's unlawful handling of the internal investigation was set up in January 2019. There has been nothing to speak of until the Spectator published Alex Salmond's evidence in late January 2021. Perhaps when Nicola faces the inquiry she will bring along the document of the legal advice she was given back in 2018, it would certainly clear matters up. Don't hold your breath.