What exactly is your problem with Abbott? I’ve always found her arguments to be very well-reasoned.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Actually the Tories care quite a bit about worker’s rights; which is why they have been eroding them since 1979.
Police are investigating a GoFundMe page set up to raise money to hire a contract killer to murder Gina Miller:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/sick-gofundme-page-pay-murder-20732052
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/sick-gofundme-page-pay-murder-20732052
M
My problem with her, and believe me I do get the subtext, is exactly this. The craft of the politician is to persuade and cajole by fair means or foul the electorate to vote in sufficient numbers to take power. My argument would be that initially the objective is to remove power from those who would do harm. In the case of our present situation it means depriving Pfeffel of a working majority to firstly frustrate Brexit and secondly to prevent him from doing harm to society as a whole. Diane Abbott, by the effect that she has on a substantial portion of the electorate works against that. The £3m for 20,000 extra policemen is a good example. By her demonstration that she wasn't on the brief she scored s a massive own goal on the scale of " I am sorry, there is no money" note by Liam. Byrne. At least he could mitigate the effect by saying it was a joke. Watch her Marr interview and then come back and tell me she was effective. It was Graylingesque.
I get what you’re saying, and it’s frustrating in the same way as Corbyn’s flip-flopping over Brexit. The racist undertones of how her perceived gaffes are reported make my blood boil, but it would be better if they weren’t gaffes at all.
Maybe I’m too idealistic, but Labour’s 2017 manifesto was the best I’ve ever seen. Those policies deserve to be put into operation, even if the leadership has to change to do it. Though I’ll be tactically voting Lib Dem, the thought of that hypocrite Swinson being anywhere near no. 10 fills me with horror.
The thing that infuriates me most about the Blairite wing of the Labour Party is their extraordinary lack of grace and loyalty. For years, decades almost, lefties like JC (and many thousands of grass roots supporters) accepted the party’s drift to the right, remained active and remained loyal. Now the party has a Socialist leader, Blair’s former followers are still queuing up to spit the dummy.
And worse than that, helping to fuel the ridiculous antisemitism rumours.
I agree on the Labour agenda, not much I would disagree with but quite a lot I imagine the electorate at large would. Take defence. Logically we could cut the bill in half. The current role of our armed forces is to strut about ceremonially. The nuclear deterrent is an expensive joke. In my opinion contributing to an EU army would be the best thing we could do. Try selling that to the voters.
Whatever you criticisms of Blair/Brown they kept The Tories out of power for thirteen years. My personal view is that Blair would have beaten Cameron in 2010. So we wouldn't be having Brexit.
Whatever you criticisms of Blair/Brown they kept The Tories out of power for thirteen years. My personal view is that Blair would have beaten Cameron in 2010. So we wouldn't be having Brexit.
I am still waiting for someone to explain to me just why Corbyn is unelectable.
Is it one of those things that gets repeated time and time again, by the right wing media until Labour supporters start believing, and repeating it?
Seriously I really don’t get it.
As Archers has said, the Blairite MPs aren’t loyal enough to the party, and they themselves are frequently putting Corbyn down for reasons I don’t understand.
Don’t they want to govern?
And as Chilco said, his 2017 manifesto was the best and I think it can get better next time, as I think he can appeal to young and old with careful lobbying.
For the young, lower the voting age to 16, eliminate university fees and reduce the age by when they receive the full rate of the minimum/living wage.
For the elderly, free social care and reinstating the free tv licence for 75+.
And across the board, increased funding for social housing, public services and the NHS, plus rent capping, ending zero hours contracts, improving the welfare system, protection for workers and renationalising utilities, mail and railway.
Some of these I believe are in the pipeline, but the biggest vote winner, IMO, would be changing his position over Brexit and stand for Remain, but I think after so long he is too principled (stubborn?) to change.
Is it one of those things that gets repeated time and time again, by the right wing media until Labour supporters start believing, and repeating it?
Seriously I really don’t get it.
As Archers has said, the Blairite MPs aren’t loyal enough to the party, and they themselves are frequently putting Corbyn down for reasons I don’t understand.
Don’t they want to govern?
And as Chilco said, his 2017 manifesto was the best and I think it can get better next time, as I think he can appeal to young and old with careful lobbying.
For the young, lower the voting age to 16, eliminate university fees and reduce the age by when they receive the full rate of the minimum/living wage.
For the elderly, free social care and reinstating the free tv licence for 75+.
And across the board, increased funding for social housing, public services and the NHS, plus rent capping, ending zero hours contracts, improving the welfare system, protection for workers and renationalising utilities, mail and railway.
Some of these I believe are in the pipeline, but the biggest vote winner, IMO, would be changing his position over Brexit and stand for Remain, but I think after so long he is too principled (stubborn?) to change.
Yeah, that I find truly offensive.
I walked in front of the Jewish Labour banner for quite a bit of the people’s vote march last weekend. One of the most pro Corbyn activists in my local branch couldn’t be more Jewish if he tried. You never hear those stories in the media.
How did Tony Benn fight the membership? You can accuse him of fighting the leadership (although Harold Wilson has the good sense to negate that by making him a govt minister), but fight the membership? Never. I think you need to recognise that the membership, though a broad church, has always been to the left of the PLP.
You might be right. In a sense, I’ll acknowledge that you are right.
But I also believe that old fashioned values like loyalty, service, unity, decency, respect, compassion are the bedrock of a decent society. And the fact we have lost sight of all of them, at the same time as our whole body politic has moved relentlessly to the right, is no coincidence.
I don’t understand how the minds of some so-called humans work, sometimes.
I agree about defence, but don’t forget that, ironically, staying in the EU would give us far more revenue due to the ATAD. I’m dumbfounded as to why Corbyn hasn’t seized upon that.
I meant membership of the EU. And you can't really explain popularity ratings of -60 for Cirbyn as being the fault of the media. I will agree that they are largely hostile but that has always been the case whoever the Labour leader is. No you can't get away from the fact that he doesn't get through to the wider electorate. It is partly policies and partly his style.
This blanking of reporters doesn't help. He comes out of his house and makes it plain that he hates them and everything they stand for. You cannot do that in these PR driven times. You have to smile and be nice to Daily Wail lackeys even though you know they are just awaiting the opportunity to put the knife in.
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This whole sorry mess was created by useless Catalanist separatist politicians who whipped up a sea of emotion in order to garner support for themselves. Catalunya was doing very well, earning a lot of money, its economy was growing so why their politicans had to stirr the hornets' nest i do not know. They have a hell of a lot of autonomy. And why do they want to build a border when being a member of the EU is about removing borders and making life easier for each individual in the EU? As far as I can see they are sh****** in their own nest.