Off Topic Politics Thread

[Archers Road]

I can't let you get away with that without comment. I have been a Labour activist since 1970 serving fourteen years as a district councillor. I'm not fooled by media bias. Corbyn just isn't up to the job, can't think on his feet and his performances at PMQ's have been woeful, he misses open goal after open goal and he dodges radio interviews even when it's the BBC who are neutral. It's too late to save Labour from the electoral disaster about to overtake them, let's just hope Pfeffel doesn't end up with a big majority. If he does there is only one person to blame.

That may be. But the fact remains that no other political leader has ever been subjected to the relentless smear campaign aimed at undermining Jeremy Corbyn. That includes briefing from disaffected Blairites within Labour

I’d be interested, btw, to hear how a life long Labour activist can consider voting for another party? All through the Blair years, the red blooded socialists in the party, for the most part, remained loyal. Now a left winger is finally in charge, and the so called moderates are falling over themselves to put the boot in on the leader.

 

[Farked19]

Probably a bit like a No Deal Brexit. We can see the disaster looming and many of us are prepared to do whatever it needs to stop it. I know I'm aligning myself with such traitors as Alistair Campbell, but if that's what it takes... Don't get me wrong I would agree with much of a Corbyn agenda, it's just that it's just another unicorn. It's not those like me you need to persuade, it's those who wouldn't watch for example Newsnight but would never miss Come Dancing.

 

[Archers Road]

Probably a bit like a No Deal Brexit. We can see the disaster looming and many of us are prepared to do whatever it needs to stop it. I know I'm aligning myself with such traitors as Alistair Campbell, but if that's what it takes...

Did you predict an electoral wipeout in 2017, by any chance?

 

[Farked19]

It didn't happen only because Corbyn pretended to be a Remainer. How else do you explain the difference in poll ratings 40% at the GE, mid 20's now. Maybe you don't believe the polls.

 

[TheSecondStain]

Why do you think Trump would be done if Clinton runs again? At the last election I was quite taken back by the dislike and distrust of Clinton by the majority of my American colleagues of the time.

They said, “Yeah, Trump is an idiot but he means what he says. Clinton is just a liar.”

If you read it again I said "if she [Clinton] got elected", not if she runs again.

And many people still forget she polled more votes than Trump. And his popularity is so low a hedgehog would beat him. Plus now realise that he only tells the truth by accident. Plus he's broken the law something like 12-15 times [I've lost count].

Aside from all that, I wouldn't want her running again anyway. Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, for me.

 

[VocalMinority]

Main reason I'm disliking Corbyn right now is that he isn't stepping aside. Whether or not the media criticism of his is correct isn't really important anymore. The damage has been done and he is unlikely to be successful in an election right now.

The best thing corbyn can do for his party and to further socialist ideals is to step aside and let somebody more electable lead labour into an election. Leaders are always at their most popular when they are first chosen and if you put somebody more central then labour have a great chance to pick up voters who dislike Boris. But he's still holding onto power.

 

[Schad]

The best thing corbyn can do for his party and to further socialist ideals is to step aside and let somebody more electable lead labour into an election. Leaders are always at their most popular when they are first chosen and if you put somebody more central then labour have a great chance to pick up voters who dislike Boris. But he's still holding onto power.

This, I think, is the big fear. If Corbyn suffers the loss currently projected, he'll take the smallest share of the vote of any Labour leader since 1918, against a Conservative Party currently in disarray. And if that happens, no matter what other factors one can say are at play, there will not be another Labour leader with politics comparable to his for a generation or more. "The next Jeremy Corbyn" will be used as a brickbat both within and without the party against any would-be leader whose politics leans toward the leftward side of the movement.

 

[fatletiss]

If you read it again I said "if she [Clinton] got elected", not if she runs again.

And many people still forget she polled more votes than Trump. And his popularity is so low a hedgehog would beat him. Plus now realise that he only tells the truth by accident. Plus he's broken the law something like 12-15 times [I've lost count].

Aside from all that, I wouldn't want her running again anyway. Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, for me.

Ah sorry, I read that as if she was elected to run for her party. Clearly if she’s elected as Preseident then that means Trump is done

 

[tiggermaster]

Never mind that Jeremy is undoubtedly a nice guy, he is not electable. A divided government, so many open goals not just missed but ignored. A party conference so badly managed that it left the Tories with an open goal and an imminent election looming. Momentum shooting from the hip and hitting potential Labour voters in the foot. The cloud of antisemitism settled firmly above an election campaign. The floating voter now considering tactical options. One wonders if it could have been more comprehensively messed up! Given the real issues of today and after 50 years of voting Labour it might be time to vote Green.....

 

[Beddy]

As I've said before the looney party is looking good at the moment.........

 

[TheSecondStain]

Ah sorry, I read that as if she was elected to run for her party. Clearly if she’s elected as President then that means Trump is done

Yeah, but they might bring proper criminal charges against him. He said he would put her in jail. She might actually make sure it was done, if she was elected. Besides which, there is a lot of opinion that Trump will be forced to leave office early anyhow.

 

[SaintinSerbia]

You must log in or register to see media

 

[TheSecondStain]

Lobbying in US and Europe has tried to block and delay moves to cut emissions, study shows:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-opponents-climate-action-us-europe-emissions

Ok, it's no surprise at all to anyone who has delved even very slightly into the motivations of vehicle manufacturers. But some people may think all the noise they hear of car makers lobbying politicians with cash and promises are fake news. Well it simply isn't the case. The car makers have resisted every attempt to bring tighter regulations to making cars safer and cleaner - and eventually to eliminate the ICE.

Peculiarly, only this time, when Trump is rolling back emission standards nationwide, have car makers decided to resist that measure and keep with Obama's standards. But that doesn't mean they want the ICE to end worldwide. However, worldwide demand for the demise of the ICE has taken hold, and car makers are finding that progressively harder to resist.

 

[Archers Road]

Main reason I'm disliking Corbyn right now is that he isn't stepping aside. Whether or not the media criticism of his is correct isn't really important anymore. The damage has been done and he is unlikely to be successful in an election right now.

The best thing corbyn can do for his party and to further socialist ideals is to step aside and let somebody more electable lead labour into an election. Leaders are always at their most popular when they are first chosen and if you put somebody more central then labour have a great chance to pick up voters who dislike Boris. But he's still holding onto power.

This, I think, is the big fear. If Corbyn suffers the loss currently projected, he'll take the smallest share of the vote of any Labour leader since 1918, against a Conservative Party currently in disarray. And if that happens, no matter what other factors one can say are at play, there will not be another Labour leader with politics comparable to his for a generation or more. "The next Jeremy Corbyn" will be used as a brickbat both within and without the party against any would-be leader whose politics leans toward the leftward side of the movement.

So the Labour Party should effectively hand a veto on it's leadership to the right wing press? Find somebody who won't frighten the privileged and the powerful, somebody willing to water down their principles to win votes, like Tony Blair? What, I am bound to wonder, is the bloody point of that?

For the record, I did not vote for JC in either of the recent leadership elections, but an overwhelming majority of the membership did, on each occasion.

 

[Schad]

So the Labour Party should effectively hand a veto on it's leadership to the right wing press? Find somebody who won't frighten the privileged and the powerful, somebody willing to water down their principles to win votes, like Tony Blair? What, I am bound to wonder, is the bloody point of that?

For the record, I did not vote for JC in either of the recent leadership elections, but an overwhelming majority of the membership did, on each occasion.

You're fixated on the notion that the right wing press is behind all this. It isn't. Jeremy Corbyn's fecklessness is the primary cause of Jeremy Corbyn's current predicament, and while I guess there's a nice feeling to thumbing one's nose and rallying the dwindling troops behind him to get crushed in the next election, it neither helps the party nor his causes. He has the support of a smaller and smaller Labour Party, certainly. But that Labour Party is not going to win anything. That it is not going to win anything isn't the fault of his socialist leanings, but rather his lack of coherent leadership, but it'll damned well be framed that way after he's shooed out in a few months.

 

[I Sorry I Ruined The Party]

The point is, in the US/UK, the public can try to fight their own government's decisions through protest etc.

Yes, but our current government is busy trying to take that away. Your complaint is that China complains whenever anyone badmouths them and applies pressure to shut them up. Do you think a Chinese company could offend Trump and not suffer backlash?

Trump is wrong about China because he is wrong about everything. It doesn't bother him one iota that their government engages in propaganda and prosecutes enemies. He recognizes China's bullshit, and he respects Xi Jinping for that. He thinks that's how it should work for him in the US.

I'm not saying you're wrong about China. You're wrong about Trump. He's not putting tariffs against China because he thinks they are a morally bad government. The worse the government, the better. His supporters don't like China because Chinese people are yellow and not Christian. They're perfectly fine with Russia is white and Christian, except for the Russians who aren't, but supporting Putin will fix that problem in a hurry. That's all it is. Racism and Trump being an asshole.

 

[Archers Road]

You're fixated on the notion that the right wing press is behind all this. It isn't. Jeremy Corbyn's fecklessness is the primary cause of Jeremy Corbyn's current predicament, and while I guess there's a nice feeling to thumbing one's nose and rallying the dwindling troops behind him to get crushed in the next election, it neither helps the party nor his causes. He has the support of a smaller and smaller Labour Party, certainly. But that Labour Party is not going to win anything. That it is not going to win anything isn't the fault of his socialist leanings, but rather his lack of coherent leadership, but it'll damned well be framed that way after he's shooed out in a few months.

It's not a smaller and smaller Labour Party. As a grass roots movement, it has rarely been bigger, though I do recognise that grass roots movements are by their very nature, frequently excluded from power...

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05125

 

[VocalMinority]

So the Labour Party should effectively hand a veto on it's leadership to the right wing press? Find somebody who won't frighten the privileged and the powerful, somebody willing to water down their principles to win votes, like Tony Blair? What, I am bound to wonder, is the bloody point of that?

For the record, I did not vote for JC in either of the recent leadership elections, but an overwhelming majority of the membership did, on each occasion.

It's about accepting reality. Even if what you say is true then the hard right already have a veto on left wing leaders so it's either have a leader with watered down (compromise) policies or Boris Johnson.
Ignoring this won't change anything.


The point would be to get Boris out of power.

 

[Schad]

It's not a smaller and smaller Labour Party. As a grass roots movement, it has rarely been bigger, though I do recognise that grass roots movements are by their very nature, frequently excluded from power...

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05125

Therein lies part of the problem, though. Those 500,000 members represent a very small fraction of Labour's voting base...less than 4% of the total votes cast for Labour in 2017. A party that is responsive to card-carrying members while alienating the general public inevitably becomes less of a grassroots organization than a Greek chorus.

 

[Archers Road]

It's about accepting reality. Even if what you say is true then the hard right already have a veto on left wing leaders so it's either have a leader with watered down (compromise) policies or Boris Johnson.
Ignoring this won't change anything.


The point would be to get Boris out of power.

The need to get rid of Boris is something you would hope all the opposition parties could get on board with. But unfortunately Jo Swinson seems inclined to make that more difficult, by attempting to black ball the leader of Her Majesty's opposition.