Off Topic Politics Thread

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Rorschach's Journal said:
<laugh> Not me Ides, I agree that polar opposites seem to have more in common than they do with middle of the road politics. Far right and far left both agree on the need for state control of infrastructure, both use the media to keep the population "informed" and both use scapegoats to bond the rest of the population.
Just don't confuse far right fascism with Liberal capitalism as fascist ideology is much closer to Marxism than it ever would be to current tory and to some extent Liberal democrat policy.
Capitalism uses fascist leaning activist as a blunt weapon, but they don't share the same beliefs.
I don't think I've attacked you on this forum though Ides, I just often disagree with what you believe which is part of any debate. You carry on doing your thing, and I'll probably carry on opposing a lot of what you say...we're very different politically and that probably won't change much.
Just don't mention Chuka though :emoticon-0102-bigsm
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That means that we are closer to the middle that the polar extremes. Good analysis!!
 
Luckily he's not as useless as Pfeffel. Obviously I don't like the bloke but he is a clever and effective politician. My guess is that it's Farage that will blow a hole through the Tories. If he takes 15% of the vote then they're fecked.
 
I often find myself defending the BBC News, not because they are 100% accurate, but because they usually don't have a political axe to grind. Therefore, people on all sides have a go at them. As that is the case, they must be doing something right.
Their environmental reporting sometimes leaves certain inaccuracies. David Shukman, for example, is a great environment reporter. but the articles from nameless individuals can be a little off the mark. However, with that in mind, this BBC Environmental News article is worth reading. Yeah, some inaccuracies, [We did without Coal Power for nigh on 2 months continuous this year, not 1 week. That was a couple of years ago] but overall, a fair piece. Have a read to see where the UK is in the grand scheme of things:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/DmZ6C9zSsR/road_to_clean_energy
 
Archers Road said:
He's not useless though, is he? I wish he was, but he's had a huge hand in provoking a right wing revolution in British politics which will reverberate for decades.
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Do you think he is the 21st century equivalent to Oswald Mosley/Moseley? He is a demagogue who has a hard core following. How many millions that is I do not know but perhaps his greatest failing is his organisation. Otherwise he would surely have been an MP now, at the head of a party with increasing numbers inside the HoC: Sadly, for him, this has yet to materialise and is likely to continue because unlike more efficient "fascists" he is inefficient or has an inefficient team behind him. So I kind of stand by my claim that he is not very good.
 
Greta Thunberg's address to the UN last week:

For more than 30 years, the science has been crystal clear. How dare you continue to look away and come here saying that you’re doing enough when the politics and solutions needed are still nowhere in sight… The popular idea of cutting our emissions in half in 10 years only gives us a 50% chance of staying below 1.5 degrees [Celsius], and the risk of setting off irreversible chain reactions beyond human control. Fifty percent may be acceptable to you. But those numbers do not include tipping points, most feedback loops, additional warming hidden by toxic air pollution or the aspects of equity and climate justice. They also rely on my generation sucking hundreds of billions of tons of your CO2 out of the air with technologies that barely exist. So a 50% risk is simply not acceptable to us — we who have to live with the consequences.

“How dare you pretend that this can be solved with just ‘business as usual’ and some technical solutions? … There will not be any solutions or plans presented in line with these figures here today, because these numbers are too uncomfortable. And you are still not mature enough to tell it like it is. You are failing us. But the young people are starting to understand your betrayal. The eyes of all future generations are upon you. And if you choose to fail us, I say: We will never forgive you. We will not let you get away with this. Right here, right now is where we draw the line. The world is waking up. And change is coming, whether you like it or not.

Couldn't put it better. Bravo!
 
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Farked19 said:
Luckily he's not as useless as Pfeffel. Obviously I don't like the bloke but he is a clever and effective politician. My guess is that it's Farage that will blow a hole through the Tories. If he takes 15% of the vote then they're fecked.
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Johnson could win a massive majority if he binned Article 50 and resolved to keep the UK in the EU.
 
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The Ides of March said:
Johnson could win a massive majority if he binned Article 50 and resolved to keep the UK in the EU.
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Disagree. I think that every other leader has a strong incentive to campaign on binning Article 50, but not Boris. No one really likes the guy; being the standard-bearer for Brexit is essentially the only thing he has.
 
It is quite interesting that newspaper reports over the weekend suggested that Johnson would win a general election. The polls are really strange at the moment and it is very difficult to know what to believe. I am less convinced that there can be a majority for any party albeit I do not feel that Labour's apparent low scoring is correct and sense that they are being under-estimated. Picking up on an earlier comment, I feel that a lot of Corbyn's problems do actually stem from biased reporting on the BBC and especially from Laura Kuenssberg who has been so anti-Corbyn that many have asked for her to be removed from the BBC and Labour activists have correctly held her to account at previous conferences. It is small wonder that she has needed a bodyguard to protect her but these are the consequences of peddling lies and undermining a genuine and honest political leader.

I think that Farage will blow a hole in the Tories, especially is Brexit is not delivered. However, I think that Farage will not get elected as an MP and that it has got to the point that people genuinely dislike him. Wherever he stands, he is someone that voters want to humiliate. I would be really surprised if he got elected but I can see the Brexit party become the principle opposition party. I feel that we will ultimately end up with an SNP / Labour coalition in power with the Brexit Party becoming the opposition with what remains of the Tories in support. The Liberals can never be trusted and I think this will always go against them with the electorate who will not forgive them for the lies they spun before going in to power with the Conservatives. As Alexei Sayle said, the Liberals are the party of the attempted murderer Jeremy Thorpe, the *****phile Cyril Smith, Cheeky Girl boyfriend Lembik Opik and the person who is now head of ethics at Facebook! Why would anyone vote Liberal? !!!
 
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The answer to your question Why would anyone vote Liberal? Is an easy one. If you want to Remain it's an essential part of the equation. If we had for example a Tom Watson at the head of Labour then we could vote fir them and trust that would be the outcome, But Corbyn has been a Leaver ever since we joined and he hasn't changed. Regardless of your list of bad Liberals, and I could easily respond with a list for both the other main parties, the LD's now offer us a route to Remain. At least we can trust them on that. As a Labour supporter who has worked at every GE since as a 12 year old I ran between polling station and committee room in the 1964 Wilson victory. I will now support whichever candidate is best able to beat Pfeffel. I suggest that everybody does the same.
 
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Just a point guys........I'm being told that the betting on remain is going up........... is this right? A lot of you find facts that seem to elude me for what ever reason. So what's your view? After all surely those that expect to win millions on coming out, some must be gambling on a remain surely...........I guess though they are not known as fat cats?
 
Beddytare said:
Just a point guys........I'm being told that the betting on remain is going up........... is this right? A lot of you find facts that seem to elude me for what ever reason. So what's your view? After all surely those that expect to win millions on coming out, some must be gambling on a remain surely...........I guess though they are not known as fat cats?
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Please explain what you mean by a “Remain deal”. We don’t need a deal to remain, we are already members of the EU.
 
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Just for those of you who think that racism and xenophobia is a modern invention, here’s Sir Ian McKellen with a rather beautiful piece of Shakespeare showing that the same arguments you hear today were around in the 16th century:
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Beddytare said:
Edited........
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Right. In answer to your question, you’re forgetting that the whole reason for the referendum, and the reason Leave won, was because it was driven by the super-rich wanting out of the new tax regulations which start in the EU in January. On top of that, hedge fund managers like Crispin Odey are literally betting fortunes on the country’s future. There may well be some hedge funds being staked on us remaining, but they would be betting against their own interests.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
Right. In answer to your question, you’re forgetting that the whole reason for the referendum, and the reason Leave won, was because it was driven by the super-rich wanting out of the new tax regulations which start in the EU in January. On top of that, hedge fund managers like Crispin Odey are literally betting fortunes on the country’s future. There may well be some hedge funds being staked on us remaining, but they would be betting against their own interests.
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Ok but would you call hedge funds "fat Cats"?
 
Beddytare said:
Ok but would you call hedge funds "fat Cats"?
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Crispin Odey made £220 million betting on the referendum result with insider knowledge of the actual result, after the exit polls had given Remain the victory. That poll made the pound rise in value, so he sold millions of pounds in foreign currency markets, then when the result was announced and the pound dropped in value, he bought them back at a huge profit.
Here he is, judge for yourself if he’s a fat cat!
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ChilcoSaint said:
Crispin Odey made £220 million betting on the referendum result with insider knowledge of the actual result, after the exit polls had given Remain the victory. That poll made the pound rise in value, so he sold millions of pounds in foreign currency markets, then when the result was announced and the pound dropped in value, he bought them back at a huge profit.
Here he is, judge for yourself if he’s a fat cat!
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Ok thanks understood...........
 
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