Off Topic Politics Thread

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Rorschach's Journal said:
I think also that 10 years of austerity policies plus uncertainty over Brexit has meant that most working class families couldn't afford to buy an EV, even if they'd like to. I'm certainly in that group after a decade of wage stagnation.
My current car cost me £2k - I possibly could have upped my budget, but not to the levels of even the cheapest new EVs and there aren't enough 2nd hand ones floating around for prices to be affordable. I live 25 miles from work. Public transport can't get me there and back anywhere close to my normal working day so my car is essential. I could move closer to work, but house prices are much more expensive anywhere near Bath so transport savings would be swallowed up by housing costs - plus my wife works relatively local to where we live so she'd have to travel further if we moved. Public transport doesn't work for her either and although we live 6 miles from where she works, the earliest bus isn't early enough for her to get to work for 8:00 so consequently we need 2 cars which makes EV alternatives even more of a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with you on that. I just didn't want to over complicate my post. But you're right. That's still government policy that's done it.
 
Archers Road said:
One addendum I’d make to that analysis, is that while the Parliamentary Labour Party is packed with Blairite liberals, the grass roots is considerably more Socialist in outlook. That’s the true cause imo of a lot of the tension within the Labour Party.

The situation is somewhat complicated by the fact that this Socialist base is for the most part unequivocally pro Remain, while the leadership is not.

Despite all these tensions, inevitable in any democratic institution, the Labour Party has done a far better job than the Tories have, of maintaining unity and achieving compromise - something the press are extremely unlikely ever to acknowledge.
Click to expand...

Whilst it is true that a large proportion of the PLP is Blairite I must observe that against a similarly beleaguered Tory administration Blair had a thirty point lead and went on to gain a 160 seat majority. Corbyn on the other hand is behind in the polls and heading to quite possibly be third in the share of the vote behind the LD's. He has been an absolute disaster for the party. The lady who chaired the conference Brexit vote is typical of Corbynite appointees, put there merely because they can be easily manipulated.
 
Farked19 said:
Whilst it is true that a large proportion of the PLP is Blairite I must observe that against a similarly beleaguered Tory administration Blair had a thirty point lead and went on to gain a 160 seat majority. Corbyn on the other hand is behind in the polls and heading to quite possibly be third in the share of the vote behind the LD's. He has been an absolute disaster for the party. The lady who chaired the conference Brexit vote is typical of Corbynite appointees, put there merely because they can be easily manipulated.
Click to expand...


I have a lot of sympathy with this. The thing that Blair did, and he actually told the members he was going to do this, was that he had to move certain values of the Labour Party to the centre ground to get elected. That doesn't sit well with a lot of people but it worked. He and Brown took the party out of the wilderness and into power. And for quite a while the UK felt a little bit better about itself. Even if they lost, the LP became electable again. At the moment clearly they're just not there. That's either through leadership or policy.
I've said before, I think Jeremy is a good person, and a leader of a party of protest. But I don't think he can lead a party pushing for government. He misses too many opportunities to point the way, when the present government is in a state of total disarray. He'd be ok as an interim PM, in my opinion though because he'd have other leader party leaders behind him. Jo Swinson might be right about JC, but she needs to reconsider for the public good.
 
I just wonder that if the climate emergency is going to take such radical changes to avert, are we all being short-sighted thinking that economic growth, hence tory government can possibly be sustainable. I'd sooner radically change my lifestyle knowing that my government was doing things for the people and the environment rather than share prices.
I think that the huge changes that need to happen can only happen under a socialist, interventionist government and that we need to forget about how we ran things in the past, and what constitutes sucess
 
  • Like
Reactions: claytonsaint, TheSecondStain and ----HistoryRepeating----
Rorschach's Journal said:
I just wonder that if the climate emergency is going to take such radical changes to avert, are we all being short-sighted thinking that economic growth, hence tory government can possibly be sustainable. I'd sooner radically change my lifestyle knowing that my government was doing things for the people and the environment rather than share prices.
I think that the huge changes that need to happen can only happen under a socialist, interventionist government and that we need to forget about how we ran things in the past, and what constitutes success
Click to expand...

And yes, whilst it won't necessarily require hard socialist measures, it will take a more left wing approach to calculate the true cost of capital projects. Other than Brown sites, the environment is barely ever taken into account. However, if a government initiates a carbon tax and proper measures to calculate the environment benefit or destruction to an area or atmosphere then, without even providing incentives, green initiatives will lead the way. What seems to be invisible to this government is that clean industries are capable of employing thousands of people, because there is a whole infrastructure that could be changed and upgraded. And now that new technologies like low or zero-CO2 concrete can be made, we can build without significant damage too. As for carbon capture tech - use nature. Plants are great. Bamboo is fantastic. And a good fibre and building material too. All that is needed is a wartime will. Do it that way and we could get it done in way under a decade. What's the betting they don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: claytonsaint and Schrodinger's Cat
We flew to Cork from Bristol and back in one of these this week:
You must log in or register to see images

That’s an ATR 72-600 twin turboprop, which Aer Lingus claim has a 40% lower carbon footprint than the equivalent size jet. A lovely ride, too, and much quieter than a 737.

But why not go the whole hog and have an electric-powered airliner of this size?
 
Rorschach's Journal said:
I guess every nation is waiting for somebody else to take the plunge first...i think it should be us.
Click to expand...
Thing is, is that being in the EU, we have been doing it together. Some projects are easier, or even just possible, on a larger, unified scale. And the environment is not something you can just set aside and let one country take all the measures, because damage to the environment doesn't recognise barriers. Sure, you get localised damage, but mainly it's a global thing. So we have to tackle it on a global basis.

As I've said before, I've recognised this and spoken to people about it for about 30 years. But I'm no Greta Thunberg, because I was an informed adult mature student back then. If we had started tackling this back then we'd have been late, but we would have had it under control by now. But this is last chance saloon time. I keep saying to people, and writing here, that you have to change your lifestyle. Not next year, not next week, now. Me, I changed a long time ago to minimal impact, and I could still change a bit more and plan to. Football, Brexit and whatever else mean fcuk all, compared to this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: claytonsaint
TheSecondStain said:
Thing is, is that being in the EU, we have been doing it together. Some projects are easier, or even just possible, on a larger, unified scale. And the environment is not something you can just set aside and let one country take all the measures, because damage to the environment doesn't recognise barriers. Sure, you get localised damage, but mainly it's a global thing. So we have to tackle it on a global basis.

As I've said before, I've recognised this and spoken to people about it for about 30 years. But I'm no Greta Thunberg, because I was an informed adult mature student back then. If we had started tackling this back then we'd have been late, but we would have had it under control by now. But this is last chance saloon time. I keep saying to people, and writing here, that you have to change your lifestyle. Not next year, not next week, now. Me, I changed a long time ago to minimal impact, and I could still change a bit more and plan to. Football, Brexit and whatever else mean fcuk all, compared to this.
Click to expand...
But the EU relies on globalism and growth so it's a massive jugganaut to turn in another direction. If we are as close to disaster as is being stated, that model needs to completely change, as do nearly all our preconceptions of what constitutes value.
Football is an example - at what point does the entertainment value get outweighed by the environmental cost of transporting teams and thousands of fans, sometimes around the world just to provide 90 minutes of entertainment?

Big Big changes required, but I don't think people will accept it, and will carry on doing what they want as we watch the place become uninhabitable for half the population.
Talking of which, how do we reduce the global population to a potentially sustainable level?
 
Farked19 said:
Whilst it is true that a large proportion of the PLP is Blairite I must observe that against a similarly beleaguered Tory administration Blair had a thirty point lead and went on to gain a 160 seat majority. Corbyn on the other hand is behind in the polls and heading to quite possibly be third in the share of the vote behind the LD's. He has been an absolute disaster for the party. The lady who chaired the conference Brexit vote is typical of Corbynite appointees, put there merely because they can be easily manipulated.
Click to expand...


I was actually agreeing with you - reluctantly - up until the last two sentences. I think it's the electorate that's easily manipulated, but that's hardly surprising given the extent of the relentless orchestrated smear campaign the media have conducted against Corbyn since day one.
 
You must log in or register to see images


Rachel Johnson, yes that’s the Prime Member’s sister, was alluding to Boris being under pressure from pleasant fellows like Odey to deliver No Deal.

Wouldn’t it be ironic that if we manage to stop it happening, rather than the full extent of the law crashing down on the Buffoon, it ends up being used to protect him from people like this?
 
Archers Road said:
I was actually agreeing with you - reluctantly - up until the last two sentences. I think it's the electorate that's easily manipulated, but that's hardly surprising given the extent of the relentless orchestrated smear campaign the media have conducted against Corbyn since day one.
Click to expand...
We know the electorate are easily manipulated. That's why you have to resort to their tactics. Sadly the electorate are influenced by seeing people like Corbyn and Diane Abbott who are poor communicators attempting to communicate a message that they are very easily turned against. They don't help themselves by coming out with things like repossessing public schools, it's too easily portrayed as The Politics of Envy and that works very well in turning people against Labour. My argument isn't necessarily against their policies, I would happily scrap Trident for example and save £100 billion. But you have to be smart. Sadly Labour are not and that is why they are going to get a hiding in the election.
 
Rorschach's Journal said:
But the EU relies on globalism and growth so it's a massive jugganaut to turn in another direction. If we are as close to disaster as is being stated, that model needs to completely change, as do nearly all our preconceptions of what constitutes value.
Football is an example - at what point does the entertainment value get outweighed by the environmental cost of transporting teams and thousands of fans, sometimes around the world just to provide 90 minutes of entertainment?

Big Big changes required, but I don't think people will accept it, and will carry on doing what they want as we watch the place become uninhabitable for half the population.
Talking of which, how do we reduce the global population to a potentially sustainable level?
Click to expand...

Actually, there is evidence and talk amongst a few commentators that there will be a population collapse happening in the next 3-4 decades, so it may take care of itself. The problem with the population getting radically smaller is that, until it stabilises, there will be a glut of very old people and relatively few younger people to look after them. So there will be this lopsided average age until the older ones die out. That's me and you, the baby boomers and post-baby boomers.
As to changing our lifestyles, there won't be a huge upheaval, provided we start going in the right direction now. The EU proposals to transfer to green alternatives are in front of the UK. Certain countries have their own issues, but in a lot of areas the UK is being dragged along to better standards. This is a lot of the reason why people want to get out of the EU because they perceive that there are too many environmental regulations, when in fact we need new ones. I don't trust this UK government as far as I can spit to do the right thing by the environment. In Europe they are turning the ship around. We have our great push for Wind power. That's good, but we need to roll out massive solar plans too.
We need to get out of our cars, or get into electric ones, the next time we buy new. Hybrids won't cut it. You can always lease. For those with existing cars who can't afford new - get out of that petrol or diesel or make sure they are running in tip-top condition. Combine as many journeys into one as possible, because then the petrol or diesel will operate cleaner, because it is at operating temperature. If it is a short journey, consider a bicycle or public transport. Above all, don't buy another FF car ever again. Electric vehicles are already cheaper to own than FF cars, and they've only just got started. There are literally tonnes of things we can do, and I could write all night on my birthday. But I don't want to dwell on this subject, because it saddens me at the lack of progress.
Tell you what, do one thing. Buy a book on the subject. I've recommended this one before because it was published this year and it is aimed at helping people make the change. Here are two online links, but you can go into a bookshop and find it:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/There-Is...528880&hash=item4b6aa027f0:g:jd0AAOSwReJdeAj8

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1108439586/?tag=not606-21

Buy it. Read it. Digest it. You can dip into it at any moment too. I guarantee you will start to get a good grip on the situation and how you can reduce your own personal impact.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back