Off Topic Politics Thread

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St Godders said:
Johnson in a previous incarnation.


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st Godders

I am a bit reluctant to add "like" to this post in case someone misunderstands me! I do appreciate the sentiments though.

I do no find history to be of much interest after 1918 (I think it is actually more interesting before 1348 and goinf backwards) but I wonder if you had read any of Phillip Kerr's excellent Bernie Gunther thrillers which concern a detective in Nazi-era Germany as well as other incidents immediately post-war? The books are really well written and make you understand that the Nazis were effectively a bunch of different factions of gangsters all out to undermine each other. I really recommend these novels. Of those that I have read, "Prussian Blue" and "The Lady from Zagreb" are terrific.
 
St Godders said:
How long before we hear the "Sieg Heil!";"Sieg Heil!";"Sieg Heil!" whenever he appears.

This is all very chilling and very frightening.
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I heard it on the football terraces around 1980 among a certain faction of supporters not too far from Southampton. Yes, Pompey had a mob with NF tendencies who would chant this as they sought out the home supporters. Never experienced this with Southampton fans, nor Liverpool fans, nor Spurs, nor Arsenal , nor Manchester United.
 
Beddytare said:
If Johnson actually pulls a deal out of the bag......how are you going to react then........as slim as it may seem there is always a chance?
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Plus whilst I’m certainly not happy with today’s news, I’m equally unimpressed by the rag tag army of politicians who have had 2 solid years or more to ‘take control’ and lead the country forward. But no, both sides of this hopeless band of people have only just woken up to the reality that something has to change and realise they almost too late! If they were so anxious about our country they would have found a way of dealing with this long before some so called national government of unity, whatever that means, is brought into play. Those who seem to be on the road to that objective will all fall out with each other, before too long over one principle or another. I’m not saying Johnson is right but I am saying he’s making people for once sit up and take notice that 17+ million votes to leave and is aiming to answer that vote. I voted with the 15+ million who voted (though I detest many of the EU’s undemocratic operations and policies) to stay. But I have been increasingly furious at the unedifying bunch of politicians who have prevaricated, failed to work with those of a similar view and just simply denied any progress in this whole operation of Brexit. We don’t need another election or referendum to decide to remain as divided as we already are, because that will be, I fear the outcome and lead to yet more months of what we have already witnessed. Parliament for all its strengths failed to stop our gold reserves being sold off cheaply, failed to stop the Iraq war and the millions of deaths and countless maimed service personnel, as a result, and failed to oversee the consequences of almost fully supporting triggering Article 50 at the time. On many big issues Parliament has let this country down and if this action by the Government today does nothing else but give the whole edifice of Parliament a good shaking and change the mindset of many MP’s who seem bent on their own personal ambitions then in the end it may be worth doing. But do I like it, no I don’t. Rant over!!
 
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How I rate the PMs in my lifetime!!

Harold Wilson . Fantastic, Said no to the UK becoming involved in Vietnam. He was a supporter of industry and getting companies to set up business in the new towns towns around the big northern conurbations. Funded the foundation of the Open University. Asked Barbara Castle to devise a policy where Government and Unions would be productive together.

Edward Heath. Clearly a person with a visión as he took us into the EEC as it was known at the time. However, being a Conservative he found conflict with the miners, and in Northern Ireland, so obviously lacks empathy and a sense of even handedness

James Callaghan: I am struggling to see any positives or negatives about his time as PM. I think he was honourable and decent and tried to do a decent job. Weakness was allowing the vote of no confidence which led to Labour´s loss at the ballot box.

Thatcher: Not my favourite charácter but she had a visión even if I was opposed to it. I disliked her confrontational style. One of her better moments was her reactions post Heysel. The other strength being the introduction of the National Curriculum which laid down a script for teachers to enable students to achieve better results. And in subsequent years there was an improvement in both GCSE and A level results.

John Major: Possibly the most "human" of PM. Blighted by having to follow Thatcher, blighted by appointing such ministers as Lawson. I feel anybody could have shared a beer and conversation with him and he would have been willing to talk about football and cricket in equal measure.

Tony Blair: He was the most charasmatic of PMs we have had. Very charming, very seductive in making people believing in him. Pluses: the GFA and a raft of social legislation. The downside obviously the Iraq War and failing to get the UK into the euro.

Cameron: Charming, but useless. No visión at all.

May: Solid but dour. Lacked political wisdom.

Johnson: Absolutely toxic.
 
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Brinkworth Saint said:
Plus whilst I’m certainly not happy with today’s news, I’m equally unimpressed by the rag tag army of politicians who have had 2 solid years or more to ‘take control’ and lead the country forward. But no, both sides of this hopeless band of people have only just woken up to the reality that something has to change and realise they almost too late! If they were so anxious about our country they would have found a way of dealing with this long before some so called national government of unity, whatever that means, is brought into play. Those who seem to be on the road to that objective will all fall out with each other, before too long over one principle or another. I’m not saying Johnson is right but I am saying he’s making people for once sit up and take notice that 17+ million votes to leave and is aiming to answer that vote. I voted with the 15+ million who voted (though I detest many of the EU’s undemocratic operations and policies) to stay. But I have been increasingly furious at the unedifying bunch of politicians who have prevaricated, failed to work with those of a similar view and just simply denied any progress in this whole operation of Brexit. We don’t need another election or referendum to decide to remain as divided as we already are, because that will be, I fear the outcome and lead to yet more months of what we have already witnessed. Parliament for all its strengths failed to stop our gold reserves being sold off cheaply, failed to stop the Iraq war and the millions of deaths and countless maimed service personnel, as a result, and failed to oversee the consequences of almost fully supporting triggering Article 50 at the time. On many big issues Parliament has let this country down and if this action by the Government today does nothing else but give the whole edifice of Parliament a good shaking and change the mindset of many MP’s who seem bent on their own personal ambitions then in the end it may be worth doing. But do I like it, no I don’t. Rant over!!
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You should have no fears about the shaking. It’s happened. Politics will never be the same again, but we have to unite around something. Forget party politics, let’s just unite around the one thing that millions have died for over the centuries, the right to express ourselves at the ballot box. Parliament needs reform, the electoral system needs reform, the EU needs reform. But let’s do it democratically. That’s the thing that separates us from fascism, and despite the flaws it has preserved the peace in Europe for most of our lifetimes.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
You should have no fears about the shaking. It’s happened. Politics will never be the same again, but we have to unite around something. Forget party politics, let’s just unite around the one thing that millions have died for over the centuries, the right to express ourselves at the ballot box. Parliament needs reform, the electoral system needs reform, the EU needs reform. But let’s do it democratically. That’s the thing that separates us from fascism, and despite the flaws it has preserved the peace in Europe for most of our lifetimes.
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I doubt Johnson et al will even debate this.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
You should have no fears about the shaking. It’s happened. Politics will never be the same again, but we have to unite around something. Forget party politics, let’s just unite around the one thing that millions have died for over the centuries, the right to express ourselves at the ballot box. Parliament needs reform, the electoral system needs reform, the EU needs reform. But let’s do it democratically. That’s the thing that separates us from fascism, and despite the flaws it has preserved the peace in Europe for most of our lifetimes.
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If this pans out right, we might find a majority coalition government that actually has a true majority of the population backing it. Even in that most absurd FPTP system.
It's about time we had proper proportional representation.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
You should have no fears about the shaking. It’s happened. Politics will never be the same again, but we have to unite around something. Forget party politics, let’s just unite around the one thing that millions have died for over the centuries, the right to express ourselves at the ballot box. Parliament needs reform, the electoral system needs reform, the EU needs reform. But let’s do it democratically. That’s the thing that separates us from fascism, and despite the flaws it has preserved the peace in Europe for most of our lifetimes.
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I agree with all your comments and sentiments and I still believe we have a democracy which is going to improve over the past. Parliament still has its opportunity to show all of us that something has been learned.
 
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