Off Topic Politics Thread

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Beddytare said:
I think people are jumping to to many conclusions over the Boris incident. When you hear people rowing it would never occur to me to record it. They are entitled to their privacy. IF it was violent or kept occurring i might then. Before though, personally I would go round and ask if all is ok. Then make a judgement as to how much further the incident needs to be taken.
As for another suggestion made that I obviously ( not by you fatso) have not known or experienced violence before. Quite the reverse is true......I guarantee that I have experienced at least the same or even more than most posters on this forum trust me.
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No one is entitled to their privacy if people think some one is at risk. Also the victim of abuse is very unlikely to report it, due to be worn down/ scared of what happens if they do, you also have the victims that end up believing they deserve it due to them being so use to abuse. So usually the evidence comes from other people.
 
Beef said:
No one is entitled to their privacy if people think some one is at risk. Also the victim of abuse is very unlikely to report it, due to be worn down/ scared of what happens if they do, you also have the victims that end up believing they deserve it due to them being so use to abuse. So usually the evidence comes from other people.
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I agree it is about judgement Beef.......It's what you think at the time.......But in my view it should not be an automatic assumption..........and not necessary a call to the Guardian.........
 
Beddytare said:
Sorry mate that doesn't wash with me...........We are just never going to agree with this. Your privacy is just that your privacy...........If there is an abusive relationship it is up to the individual to report it. I know people are frightened to but neighbours do get to know and talk to the authorities about what the see and hear........I sorted a few violent ones in my daughters teens believe me. You can see the signs although in my case my daughters knew they could talk to me and did. It is up to the abuser to disclose. it is their responsibility especially with children we are not there to keep an eye on other people....sorry we were just not......

Edit........... if you know there is violence that is a different thing but a one off row, nah not for that.......
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Does your opinion extend to elderly people who are abused by their carers?
Or children being abused by their father/brother/uncle?
Or is it just boyfriend/girlfriend, husband/wife?
There are many, many types of abusive relationship where the victim isn’t necessarily abused physically, but mentally. It is that mental abuse that usually stops the victim from having the courage to reach out for help, making it easier for the abuser to continue to abuse.
I am in my 60s and have always suffered from a lack of confidence and low self esteem. The reason for my problem can be traced back to when I was a child and I was verbally abused by members of my own family, simply because I was the only fat kid in the family.
I would have loved to have had a “nosey neighbour” hear the continual abuse I received, and tell them to back off, but it wasn’t to be.
Your attitude scares me.
 
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Beddytare said:
I think people are jumping to to many conclusions over the Boris incident. When you hear people rowing it would never occur to me to record it. They are entitled to their privacy. IF it was violent or kept occurring i might then. Before though, personally I would go round and ask if all is ok. Then make a judgement as to how much further the incident needs to be taken.
As for another suggestion made that I obviously ( not by you fatso) have not known or experienced violence before. Quite the reverse is true......I guarantee that I have experienced at least the same or even more than most posters on this forum trust me.
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From what I’ve read, it’s not an uncommon occurrence. I have been on the end of a false accusation of violence (luckily the judge saw straight through her attempt at getting money from me and threw it out) and it’s not funny. However, IF I’d been loud or violent enough for the neighbours to have heard, I’d have got my just desserts, in my opinion.
 
No one on here has yet mentioned Carrie Symonds’ history as one of Stephen Warboys intended victims, an incident she recalls nothing apparently, but which is hardly going to make her more less vulnerable.
 
St Badger said:
Does your opinion extend to elderly people who are abused by their carers?
Or children being abused by their father/brother/uncle?
Or is it just boyfriend/girlfriend, husband/wife?
There are many, many types of abusive relationship where the victim isn’t necessarily abused physically, but mentally. It is that mental abuse that usually stops the victim from having the courage to reach out for help, making it easier for the abuser to continue to abuse.
I am in my 60s and have always suffered from a lack of confidence and low self esteem. The reason for my problem can be traced back to when I was a child and I was verbally abused by members of my own family, simply because I was the only fat kid in the family.
I would have loved to have had a “nosey neighbour” hear the continual abuse I received, and tell them to back off, but it wasn’t to be.
Your attitude scares me.
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Goodness me mate...........I worked with Children and Adults for nearly 9 years after coming out of the Navy. I was fully qualified too and during this time I qualified as a councillor........I worked with Bullied children, Mothers and yes even fathers during this time. You would not believe what I have dealt with.
For goodness sake I m not saying don't report something if you are worried in fact I would encourage you to do so. What I am trying to get over is that continuously recording someones loud disagreement is something I wouldn't do. If I found out that my conversation with my wife was recorded I would consider suing them for breach of privacy or something. Im sure there is something else I can do rather than punching them on the nose.........None of us surely would consider continually recording someones private conversation. If I thought that violence was involved I would go round and find out. I wouldn't just ring the police.
Strangely I had that happen myself only a couple of months ago........The family next door seemed to be arguing and shouting and it got very nasty.
So I walked round to the back of the house and just went in. The crashing was a cabinet down stairs that was accidentally knocked over by my neighbour. The shouting and arguing carried on while I was there with my neighbour , only it was upstairs. It turned out that the ladies relative was staying I for a couple of days. It was her and her ex shouting at each other over the phone and she had it on loud speaker. Trust me when I say they were actually threatening to kill each other. No, I'm not kidding.
I'm glad to say later the disagreeing lady came round and apologised for her language and behaviour. It was explained to me they were from up norf and they always shout at each other like that but understand we Southerners don't do things like that!
Now as I understand, had that been Boris's neighbour and she heard the same argument and recorded what she could hear and rang the police without trying to get a clearer picture herself. The police were clearly satisfied that it was just a noisy argument. and left. So technically no incident to report.
All I can say is if you lot were over my way and recorded all the silly arguments you can sometimes hear you would not be very popular for calling the police all the time. You would be isolated trust me. It is not our place to be nosy.......watchful yes you can do that with out making a nuisance of yourselves!!

Edit..........Elderly and their carers we are not talking about the elderly and their carers......... we have been talking about is the left overs from the Boris incident and similar.......
 
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Beddytare said:
Goodness me mate...........I worked with Children and Adults for nearly 9 years after coming out of the Navy. I was fully qualified too and during this time I qualified as a councillor........I worked with Bullied children, Mothers and yes even fathers during this time. You would not believe what I have dealt with.
For goodness sake I m not saying don't report something if you are worried in fact I would encourage you to do so. What I am trying to get over is that continuously recording someones loud disagreement is something I wouldn't do. If I found out that my conversation with my wife was recorded I would consider suing them for breach of privacy or something. Im sure there is something else I can do rather than punching them on the nose.........None of us surely would consider continually recording someones private conversation. If I thought that violence was involved I would go round and find out. I wouldn't just ring the police.
Strangely I had that happen myself only a couple of months ago........The family next door seemed to be arguing and shouting and it got very nasty.
So I walked round to the back of the house and just went in. The crashing was a cabinet down stairs that was accidentally knocked over by my neighbour. The shouting and arguing carried on while I was there with my neighbour , only it was upstairs. It turned out that the ladies relative was staying I for a couple of days. It was her and her ex shouting at each other over the phone and she had it on loud speaker. Trust me when I say they were actually threatening to kill each other. No, I'm not kidding.
I'm glad to say later the disagreeing lady came round and apologised for her language and behaviour. It was explained to me they were from up norf and they always shout at each other like that but understand we Southerners don't do things like that!
Now as I understand, had that been Boris's neighbour and she heard the same argument and recorded what she could hear and rang the police without trying to get a clearer picture herself. The police were clearly satisfied that it was just a noisy argument. and left. So technically no incident to report.
All I can say is if you lot were over my way and recorded all the silly arguments you can sometimes hear you would not be very popular for calling the police all the time. You would be isolated trust me. It is not our place to be nosy.......watchful yes you can do that with out making a nuisance of yourselves!!

Edit..........Elderly and their carers we are not talking about the elderly and their carers......... we have been talking about is the left overs from the Boris incident and similar.......
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So recording somebody having a loud argument is a big no-no but just walking straight into their house is fine <whistle>
 
Libby said:
So recording somebody having a loud argument is a big no-no but just walking straight into their house is fine <whistle>
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Don't be bloody silly......of course it's not what I would normally do. If I thought there was violence and I was in a position to stop it yes I would go straight in.
If I was a hundred percent sure id even take the door down. I wouldn't waste time on ringing the police until afterwards. I cant believe you would be cowardly enough just to record it........... Oh I see its ok to listen to someone being hurt but not ok to do something about it.............! bloody hell where were you borne??

Edit.......I forgot to mention the neighbours husband he came round the next day to say thank you for going around because I thought his wife was in trouble and as my wife reminded me he bought me in a bottle of wine.......
 
Beddytare said:
Don't be bloody silly......of course it's not what I would normally do. If I thought there was violence and I was in a position to stop it yes I would go straight in.
If I was a hundred percent sure id even take the door down. I wouldn't waste time on ringing the police until afterwards. I cant believe you would be cowardly enough just to record it........... Oh I see its ok to listen to someone being hurt but not ok to do something about it.............! bloody hell where were you borne??
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I was joking mate calm down ffs :biggrin:

I also never said what I would or wouldn't do btw.
 
VocalMinority said:
If you are speaking loud enough to be heard in the next house over then its not a private conversation.
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Even in the garden.?? Ive been in some flats where ordinary conversations can be over heard in certain circumstances.
If you are not included then it is deemed a private conversation. When you walk down the street you can hear people talking and sometimes shouting but it is deemed still to be between the two persons as private until they deem otherwise. So yes it is a private conversation it doesn’t matter that you can hear it.
 
Beddytare said:
Even in the garden.?? Ive been in some flats where ordinary conversations can be over heard in certain circumstances.
If you are not included then it is deemed a private conversation. When you walk down the street you can hear people talking and sometimes shouting but it is deemed still to be between the two persons as private until they deem otherwise. So yes it is a private conversation it doesn’t matter that you can hear it.
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If it's in public or can be overheard by the public then it's a public conversation. It solves a lot of issues in the long run for people to understand that.
 
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Beddytare said:
I think people are jumping to to many conclusions over the Boris incident. When you hear people rowing it would never occur to me to record it. They are entitled to their privacy. IF it was violent or kept occurring i might then. Before though, personally I would go round and ask if all is ok. Then make a judgement as to how much further the incident needs to be taken.
As for another suggestion made that I obviously ( not by you fatso) have not known or experienced violence before. Quite the reverse is true......I guarantee that I have experienced at least the same or even more than most posters on this forum trust me.
Click to expand...

You quoted me but clearly didn’t read my line that my comment had nothing to do with the Boris thing.

What I take issue with is you saying it is up to someone in an abusive relationship to report it. Far too blinkered.

Edit: just read that you qualified as a councillor, so I find your comment that it is down to be the victim to report it even more incredulous
 
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fatletiss said:
You quoted me but clearly didn’t read my line that my comment had nothing to do with the Boris thing.

What I take issue with is you saying it is up to someone in an abusive relationship to report it. Far too blinkered.

Edit: just read that you qualified as a councillor, so I find your comment that it is down to be the victim to report it even more incredulous
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Blimey mate you are reading more into this than need be............I am only too aware that a lot of the time the abused person will be too frightened or whatever to report abuse. Also the majority of cases I dealt with were as you say from outside reports.
I'm sorry that you cannot accept an adult has a responsibility to report being abused but unfortunately that is true...........It's not a blinkered response. As soon as we become adults we all have adult responsibilities. The fact this doesn't always happen is neither here nor there. I have never said we shouldn't be watchful but to record each loud exchange you hear is going over the top surely.
While I was readng not606 yesterday late afternoon I was actually sitting in the garden. The neighbours across the road were having a really barney. Some of the language we were listening to I haven't heard since my navy days!! yes there was crashing and threats. The man later came crashing out the front door followed by the lady a few seconds later. He stormed off for a walk I think and the lady followed him a bit down the road before coming back to find she was locked out.......luckily her next door neighbour had a spare key by all accounts. He came back about an hour or so later....no further rows. They obviously made up because as I'm typing sat in my garden Ive just heard them talking as he is off out.
It was just a noisy spat. A lot of couples are like that. As I understand some of the responses on here I should have recorded that conversation and maybe phoned the police!!!!!! Surely its a matter of judgement.? Being watchful and being nosy is two different things.
Would I be right you would have phoned the police? I can't believe you would.......
 
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