Somehow we need a sane Conservative party. This means is needs to ditch Brexit and follow the sensible policies of Germany´s Christian Democrats, which a party that every true Tory should look up to and model. This is where British Conservatism needs to be. It should not be trying to outdo Farage on Brexit.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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Somehow we need a sane Conservative party. This means is needs to ditch Brexit and follow the sensible policies of Germany´s Christian Democrats, which a party that every true Tory should look up to and model. This is where British Conservatism needs to be. It should not be trying to outdo Farage on Brexit.
Not going to happen. They will lurch further and further to the right in an attempt to appease the voters who have deserted them for Farage, while any moderate Tories will leave and join the Lib Dem’s.
If Brexit turns out killing the Tory party I will piss myself laughing.
They have been self-destructing over Brexit ever since UKIP started in 1993. The tragedy is that Labour under Corbyn seem hell-bent on doing the same.
Yes, the Left have to get their act together and capitilise in the same way that the Tories have capitilised on the split Left in the past.
I can well understand the glee from the Left at present and as a member of said party, I’m almost having a laugh myself. But say if we Tories went into oblivion who would then form a strong opposition to the Labour Party, or is the secret hope that none would exist and we could then take the Chinese route to government? Be careful of what you wish for. Just to say I’m finding this conversation interesting and thought provoking at times, if not yet persuaded!!
If you actually read my post you would see that I am anything but gleeful. The most likely outcome of a General Election at the moment is Labour having the largest number of seats, with the Lib Dem’s next, followed by Farage and the Tories. That would mean Labour’s policies being watered down by the Lib Dem’s. Brexit wouldn’t happen, true, but we need a party in power who can reunite the country and put right the inequality and poverty and disempowerment that drive millions to vote for Brexit in the first place. Unless something like the 2017 Labour manifesto is delivered, we will be back to square one.
So Gove deeply regrets taking Cocaine 20 years ago. He can't even be totally honest at this point:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48564722
I've never snorted cocaine. In my time I've had one go at acid, one with mdma, smoked a bit of marijuana, and had a few doses of psilocybin from mushrooms. One of those occasions was quite potent too. Do I regret them? Not a bit. They were me experiencing and experimenting in my younger life, and at no time did I put myself or anyone else in danger. And if anyone wanted to experiment, I would advise caution and make sure you were safe. People routinely get blind drunk, and on none of my occasions did I ever get anywhere near that state.
Michael Gove doesn't regret taking cocaine. He regrets being found out he took cocaine. Big difference. Tbh, if any of those tory leadership candidates stood up and admitted it was the experimentation of their youth and social life, and what's done is done, I'd probably have a small amount of respect for them. But instead they squirm and sneak, just like I expect them to. I couldn't trust such a person to lead a dance, let alone a party. Certainly not a country.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48564722
I've never snorted cocaine. In my time I've had one go at acid, one with mdma, smoked a bit of marijuana, and had a few doses of psilocybin from mushrooms. One of those occasions was quite potent too. Do I regret them? Not a bit. They were me experiencing and experimenting in my younger life, and at no time did I put myself or anyone else in danger. And if anyone wanted to experiment, I would advise caution and make sure you were safe. People routinely get blind drunk, and on none of my occasions did I ever get anywhere near that state.
Michael Gove doesn't regret taking cocaine. He regrets being found out he took cocaine. Big difference. Tbh, if any of those tory leadership candidates stood up and admitted it was the experimentation of their youth and social life, and what's done is done, I'd probably have a small amount of respect for them. But instead they squirm and sneak, just like I expect them to. I couldn't trust such a person to lead a dance, let alone a party. Certainly not a country.
I did read your post as I always do, my comments were in reply to the general view from the Left of which it appears you are too. Hence it makes interesting reading. However I’m not at all sure that the summary of what a new parliament would look like as you, quite fairly, state. The Lib-dems, whilst they always claim to hold the high ground are not likely to grab 2nd place in the current climate, yes I know about the Euro elections etc, that is an uncertain basis for a future general election prediction I’m afraid. The Labour Manifesto, their votes on article 50 etc, all strongly indicated they would respect the referendum so your point in that the 2017 Labour manifesto being delivered I can go along with. My concern is that remain or leave, there is not a consensus anywhere at present and a if a narrow election result comes about, there’s every chance we remain divided on those lines, whoever wins. Corbyn does not want or has any appetite for another referendum and the reason is simply the fear of the Brexit party being given so much a boost in their message that the establishment has yet again denied the population what it originally asked for.
Thanks for assuming my view, but never mind that for now. The Lib Dem’s will continue to take votes off both Labour and the Tories as will the Brexit Party. The only way this trend will stop is if Labour stop prevaricating and support Remain. Until that happens, I, and many many other traditional Labour voters will either vote Lib Dem or Green. To do this Corbyn has to get a grip and listen to the Starmers and Thornberrys of his party instead of Len McCluskie.
I guess you probably feel frustrated at your party committing suicide in the same way as I do about my preferred party, not that I’ve ever joined it. I absolutely agree about the divisions, which you have to admit were entirely caused by the Tories trying to appease the loathsome Farage. Whoever wins the Brexit argument, and the next Election, have to make healing the country the highest priority. Building an infrastructure to halt climate change would be the obvious route to getting everyone working together.
Corbyn completely losing the plot now:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...our-split-on-new-brexit-vote?CMP=share_btn_fb
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...our-split-on-new-brexit-vote?CMP=share_btn_fb
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Much like the Republicans in the US have done in response to the Tea Party. This won't end well.
I don´t think the Tories were trying to appease the nonentity that is Farage. What Cameron was trying to avoid was throwing out all the eurosceptics from the Conservative party. He was appeasing the likes of Bill Cash, Redwood, JRM and a plethora of others. As we know appeasement does not work the face of the aggressor. Thus having empowered them, they grew more powerful and today we have reached the situation of the enemy within the bowels of the Tory party seizing control.
Thatcher would have thrown them out a long time ago.
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Maybe we could be witnessing the beginning of the end of the two party system? Although our fptp electoral system does mitigate against such a change. In effect both Tories and Labour have been coalitions within one party anyway. Maybe those coalitions will break up and others will form.
The thing that makes me least confident about British democracy, is our utterly unprincipled media; much as I dislike Michael Gove, I dislike him a lot less than I do The Daily Mail; and it gives me no pleasure to see a man's career ruined because he got off his tits decades ago.
This is what I mean about Jeremy. Good, well intentioned guy, but he misses opportunities and score own goals.
Except she didn’t. Cash and Redwood were around when Thatcher was leader, Redwood was even in the government.
Although anti-EU sentiment was there, it was largely below the surface. It became a problem with Major but he managed to contain it. It really spiralled out of control during Cameron´s time and has continued to grow and grow. The pity is that neither Cameron nor May had the guts to take the eurosceptics on, and ease them out of the party.
Which is typical of parliament if I may say.......They never seem to be prepared for the unexpected............All were so convinced we would vote to stay.....Then when the vote went the other way its ..........Oh what do we do now..........!!.........The best thing they can do is have another vote but make it legal and binding which ever way it goes............Now who is going to be brave enough and enough backbone to suggest it ..........!!