I'm not arguing about the fact we should have done a much better job with the actual refugees. I am merely countering your inference that it is a poster of Syraian refugees ignoring that the majority of that surge weren't even from Syria.
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I'm not arguing about the fact we should have done a much better job with the actual refugees. I am merely countering your inference that it is a poster of Syraian refugees ignoring that the majority of that surge weren't even from Syria.
The poster was of a huge queue of people with brown faces. The inference was that they were all coming here, and that the EU was somehow responsible. Neither was true.
It was a blatantly racist move playing on some British people’s xenophobia and islamophobia.
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You would always read it like that. "brown faces in poster means obvious intent." So if that queue had been from Ukraine? If Germany (and then the EU) had pushed the line that ~Ukrainians were welcome to flee the Russians........and a million or millions started their trek. If that poster had been of them then you would have said "Erm, mnot racism but still xenophobia." or you might think that they wouldn't have done that poster at all?
To me that picture is linking an instance to an EU problem. Yes they are brown faces but how could it be anything other? The statement "The EU has failed us." Did the EU not cave in to Merkel after she had already made the announcement? Did you watch the BBC documentary? Is Tusk a racist/xenophobe? He was very against it. the EU had to try and comply after Merkel had made the statement, with Juncker thinking he was the new father of humanity while Tusk was stating it was madness. The EU did fail us. And then they tried to force countries to share the burden whether they liked it or not with threats. The stronger countries using their clout to put the smaller countries arms behind their backs.
And all the while we have Macron the big mouth about this stuff, criticising everyone else while his police are dropping immigrants over their borders into other countries and refusing entry to France.
The EU did fail us. It is still failing us. It failed the migrants and the refugees and will continue to do so at each instance. IT will always fail because one or more leaders will say things and do things without the EU being consulted first (Merkel and Rutte's Turkey deal) and thus the EU then complies having to bully other countries into submission because one or 2 leaders decided on behalf of the 28 before the 28 were consulted.
I just hope the sensible people of Hampshire vote for Remain parties on Thursday. Voting for Brexit or UKIP brings shame to our great county.
You completely miss the point, as usual. Farage was insisting they had a right to come here, and they didn’t. They would have to gain citizenship in one of the other 27 EU nations before having right of entry to the UK.
The old “take control of our borders” myth raised once again. We have perfectly good control of our borders, apart from the odd few poor souls smuggled in illegally. We are not part of the Schengen Area.
And as for trying to turn the blame for the refugee crisis back in the EU, that is simply laughable.
I know you aren’t a racist, which makes it all the more puzzling why you have hitched your wagon to a racist like Farage.
You are rather critcal of the great man, I see. But you have to admit, he is head and shoulders above any of our politicians. The best we have are Chuka Umana and David Lammy.
Questions for you Imps. Do you think the Tories should look outside for their next leader? If the Liberals lose the election (fingers crossed they do) in Australia, the Tories could do worse than snare Morrison and bring him into British politics.
What´s wrong with David Lammy? He talks a lot of sense in his deliveries. And what is wrong with Chuka? Both after all support our continued membership of the EU, unlike Corbyn!!! In fact most Labour members support continued membership so it seems as if Corbyn is out of tune with most of his party.
That's because once people set out their stall of belief they are very reluctant to admit they're wrong. As in the case with NF.
Shengen is meaningless if citizenships are granted!!! This is something Portugal were forced to take advantage of when we and others pinched so many of their young and able. They had to increase their immigration from their colonies to bridge the gaps and of course that continues to this today as it does everywhere that "isn't a rich country." Do you try to ignore that whether migrants are shared or if they are "stuck" in Germany that once they get citizenship that "sharing means nothing because they then have the freedom to "choose" where they live? i.e. If the smaller countries take their share then those people will end up in the UK or Germany eventually anyway? Do you think that continue forever?
I am not blaming the the "refugee" crisis on the EU. That is quite obviously a war problem however the migration of non Syrians and economic migrants was encouraged by an EU commission member without any EU discussion and thus that presents a problem and a fault within the EU. You and others continually talk about the EU being a democracy. Arguing against our assertions that it is undemocratic. That the "28 of the commission" have to agree. Yet here we have one example (now documented) of 1 leader deciding something and then the EU having to fall in behind, then having to bully countries into agreeing. This is not the narrative of "28 have to agree" that you talk about and neither is Rutte and Merkel making that deal with Turkey and then telling the EU. It is the EUs problem.
Yes it is laughable IF I were suggesting the EU were to blame for the refugee crisis. It is not laughable to blame the EU for it incapability to be "the EU" in any form with members not consulting each other and thus single members being able to create policy or circumstance that then has to be forced onto the other members. It was from that failing that an refugee crisis became a free for all for any migrant wishing to "get in on the gig." I blame that event, whether you want to argue it was an EU failing or solely a single member thinking they were in charge for creating the cuircumstance where thousands of people lost their lives in the mediterranean as well as any that perished from any other route into the EU.
If that is the terminology you want to use then yes I have hitched my wagon to Farage for now. I refuse to coninually vote for the major parties that do nothing other than argue about how they can just ignore the voters that put them into their positions.
I warned on here in 2015/16 that a lot of people might end up holding their noses when they didn;t want to. People are ignoring the current situation if they think this is a repeat of 2014 to 2015. A lot has changed since then. Portillo is not so blind. Even he said "people just don't care anymore what anyone says about Farage whether it is true or not. They will vote for Brexit. and when the SNP chap repeated the usual stuff about Farage, Portillo said "they will still vote for him, we are past that." SNP chap then said "without a manifesto" and Portillo answered "yes."
Whether I vote BP will depend on what policies they come up with before a GE, however given the options we are faced with no choice at all. From the LibLabCon liars to the Greens that contradict their own policies (freedom/flights/imports/EU good -----------> must stop flying and travelling, must buy more local stuff, ahh buit EU still good) Lib Dems are as much of a single issue party as UKIP ever were but are much more opportunistic and the SNP are nationalists that despise nationalism somehow!!!
All the while Brexiteers are described as nostalgic for Empire one minute yet then described as not caring about the Union breaking up in the next!!
Does it matter at all who we vote for? They are all w******s. Best to just choose the single issue you really want and hope that any other promises actually folow through, because we've had 28 years of constant BS and ignoring manifestos with spin galore.
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Just 28 years? So the bull**** started at around the time Major became PM, and not before?
Even if people disagree with you Imps, you deserve a like for all the effort you put in to the replies.
My single issue for casting my vote is HS2, but I really don't want to waste another vote on the Greens. But, I can categorically say I will not be voting for any of the big three. They have lost the plot, and the faith of many.
My single issue for casting my vote is HS2, but I really don't want to waste another vote on the Greens. But, I can categorically say I will not be voting for any of the big three. They have lost the plot, and the faith of many.
Should they look outside of their party? In our system? You think anyone inside or outside or in the country would vote for that? This is a Tory party faced with oblivion that is already internally speaking about putting Amber Rudd into Nicholas Soames' seat when (yes when) she loses in the next GE. Oblivious to what that means for their votes. And you think they (or any party) would look outside?
I would much prefer to see Labour and Tories lose masses of seats to smaller parties and a real PR to get through. It is about time that we forgot about this Man U vs Liverpool setup. Football has
Then it is down to right wing vs left wing coalition building IF left or right is actually a thing anymore seeing as Labour voters (pre 2015) are now voting for suppose right wing parties and vice versa. The whole political landscape has been turned on its head. Old allegiances have been broken.
But I can't see any party in terms of MPs looking outside of that scope in the near future. Smaller parties can do it (Greens) but then they have nothing to lose.
With most of those (members) that enthusiastically put him there and then kept him there as well as those (some members and most MPs) who are ideologically opposed to virtually all of his manifesto!! Not just Brexit.
Showed up very well with Melanie Onn last night on "this week." An MP I actually quite like and not just cos she is a looker.
I would much prefer to see Labour and Tories lose masses. It is about time that we forgot about this Man U vs Liverpool setup. Football has
Whilst I agree with you here, Farage isn’t Leicester.
Absolutely pitiful. You don’t even know if you are in favour of immigration or not by the sound of it. All countries rely on immigrants to “bridge gaps” as you put it. The UK gets, or used to get before people like you scared them off, nurses and other staff for the NHS from the EU and beyond because we don’t train enough here. And Schengen means that any EU citizen has a right to free movement around the EU, whether they were born in the EU or naturalised, which I believe takes 7 years residence. If you’re not a racist, why should it matter if an EU citizen is born in Germany or Poland, or a Syrian refugee who has lived for 7 years in Germany?
I would suggest that there was always BS, there was always spin, but the key point was mid Major and the old media struggle between major and Blair which has gone on to another level since the internet got in on the act and took over. Blair's era co-incided with that era where the internet was growing but the old media was still dominant. The internet truly took over from old media mid noughties and is THE dominant player now.)
*I ignore TV media in my "old media vs new media" because FTA TV will always be THE most dominant because every program whether documentary, lifestyle, news can be littered with nuance or narrative. Most of the internet influence is actually video snippets off TV.
We have lways had BS and spin. We always have, just in the last 28 years and I would suggest post Win98/XP Internet era it has amplified at unquestionable levels. Who needs activists and door knockers anymore? You can just decide to create a party (Macron/Farage) and be top of the polls within a month or 2. <----That last sentence should really be a very worrying thing. Not specifically aimed at those 2, but if 1/2 can do it then many many more will follow and they might not be as "nice."
In the space of 5 years (which is not a long time) we have gone from worrying about a UKIP with shades of worrying tendencies within it to wondering if a full on fascist enterprise might appear on the horizon very soon with the tools at their fingertips to go from zero to (I'm not typing that word in this context) within months!!!
The next Tory leader will ditch HS2!!! The membership are against it as are most of their voters. I'm not sure who is actually for HS2 other Adonis (who has earned from it all the way through) and the CBI types that love the idea of cheaper houses in Birmingham for their commuters.
p.s if there is a vote on the new leader before September 22nd then you can all vote for who I should vote for
because I don't particularly care and I wouldn't be voting for Boris anyway. I don't think Boris will make final 2 anyway. Raab or Hunt is my prediction at the mo.