Off Topic Politics Thread

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St Badger said:
But then the Tories had already sold off everything else that the country had previously owned, through privatisation.
How wealthy, and how much better off, would the country be, had we kept the utilities and telecommunications in public ownership?
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Absolutely, and renationalisation of rail and the utilities is in Labour’s manifesto.

As for Gordon Brown, his biggest mistake as Chancellor or PM was the “soft touch” deregulation of the financial sector, which meant that the City followed the USA down the tubes in 2008. A stronger hand might have prevented a good deal of all that misery, and might not have led to the years of austerity under the the Tories, or indirectly to the Brexit debacle.
 
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St Badger said:
But then the Tories had already sold off everything else that the country had previously owned, through privatisation.
How wealthy, and how much better off, could the country be, had we just kept the utilities and telecommunications, to name just two examples, in public ownership? Maybe Brown wouldn’t have needed to sell the gold.
The global crash left every country in a crap position.
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As an addendum.
Brown was praised for his handling of the global crash by none other than George Osborne’s leading financial advisor, who said that we would have been in a worse position had he not handled it so well. I can’t find where I read this, (it certainly won’t be in a right wing paper) but it is out there.
 
The Ides of March said:
Oh come on!!!! That is just nonsense. Unlike the DUP, the SNP are not sectarian. They seek investment to secure a better deal for all the people of Scotland. What is wrong with that? Don´t they share similar values and policies as the UK Labour party?
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No. As the name implies, they are nationalists, and put Scotland above any other interests. Their aim is to break up the UK, and leave England rotting in isolation from the rest of Europe. There certainly isn’t a socialist bone in their bodies.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
No. As the name implies, they are nationalists, and put Scotland above any other interests. Their aim is to break up the UK, and leave England rotting in isolation from the rest of Europe. There certainly isn’t a socialist bone in their bodies.
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Who could blame them given the ham fisted mess best part of three years negotiations have left the country.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
No. As the name implies, they are nationalists, and put Scotland above any other interests. Their aim is to break up the UK, and leave England rotting in isolation from the rest of Europe. There certainly isn’t a socialist bone in their bodies.
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But it is England, or rather principally the Conservative party that has left much of the UK in particular Scotland, rotting as you put it. Furthermore, they are pro-EU like you Chilcs, so they can´t be that bad!

In addition, if we study history and geology, we should realise that nothing lasts forever. So why should the UK? It might be for the best if Scotland became independent and allowed to join the EU if the UK as an entity drops out.
 
The Ides of March said:
But it is England, or rather principally the Conservative party that has left much of the UK in particular Scotland, rotting as you put it. Furthermore, they are pro-EU like you Chilcs, so they can´t be that bad!

In addition, if we study history and geology, we should realise that nothing lasts forever. So why should the UK? It might be for the best if Scotland became independent and allowed to join the EU if the UK as an entity drops out.
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I agree in principle, but in practice if the Scots leave the UK, England will then be condemned to perpetual Tory rule!
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
No. As the name implies, they are nationalists, and put Scotland above any other interests. Their aim is to break up the UK, and leave England rotting in isolation from the rest of Europe. There certainly isn’t a socialist bone in their bodies.
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Not true. The SNP want an independent Scotland, because they think that is what is best for Scotland. They are not driven by breaking up the UK (although that may be a consequence), and have no wish to see England rotting - it wouldn`t be good business, for one thing. Like her or loathe her, Nicola is the only major party leader who has been completely transparent and consistent during this whole Brexit fiasco. This solution is simple and becomes more blindingly obvious the further this shambles carries on - have another referendum (which is the democratic thing to do now), and vote in/out to revoke article 50.
 
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AberdeenSaint said:
Not true. The SNP want an independent Scotland, because they think that is what is best for Scotland. They are not driven by breaking up the UK (although that may be a consequence), and have no wish to see England rotting - it wouldn`t be good business, for one thing. Like her or loathe her, Nicola is the only major party leader who has been completely transparent and consistent during this whole Brexit fiasco. This solution is simple and becomes more blindingly obvious the further this shambles carries on - have another referendum (which is the democratic thing to do now), and vote in/out to revoke article 50.
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Let's leave "out" of the equation. Just revoke article 50 is the question, with one answer, yes!
 
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AberdeenSaint said:
Not true. The SNP want an independent Scotland, because they think that is what is best for Scotland. They are not driven by breaking up the UK (although that may be a consequence), and have no wish to see England rotting - it wouldn`t be good business, for one thing. Like her or loathe her, Nicola is the only major party leader who has been completely transparent and consistent during this whole Brexit fiasco. This solution is simple and becomes more blindingly obvious the further this shambles carries on - have another referendum (which is the democratic thing to do now), and vote in/out to revoke article 50.
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Let it never be forgotten that in 1979 the “Tartan Tories” of the SNP sided with Thatcher to bring down Jim Callaghan’s Labour government to usher in 18 years of Tory misery.
 
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Callaghan’s government brought itself down with the worst record of public sector disruption to the country. He was oblivious to the world outside his globe trotting and Labour made itself unelectable. Again. Was the nation in a better state of health after 18 years, inflation, employment record and strike record wise? And now even with the lowest unemployment rate ever people say the UK has gone to the dogs? Socialism seems a great idea until you spent everyone else’s money. France,Italy, Spain etc etc would really prefer our current economic situation than their own. Even with the mess that Brexit is and I totally agree on that, we as a nation have the ability, talent and skill to overcome this whatever the outcome. Our politicians and media unfortunately, right across the spectrum don’t all get this.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
Let it never be forgotten that in 1979 the “Tartan Tories” of the SNP sided with Thatcher to bring down Jim Callaghan’s Labour government to usher in 18 years of Tory misery.
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The economy was in such a state in the early 70`s that an Aberdeen-Celtic cup tie had to be played on a Wednesday afternoon due to power cuts. Thanks Labour for a great reason for bunking off school !
 
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Brinkworth Saint said:
Callaghan’s government brought itself down with the worst record of public sector disruption to the country. He was oblivious to the world outside his globe trotting and Labour made itself unelectable. Again. Was the nation in a better state of health after 18 years, inflation, employment record and strike record wise? And now even with the lowest unemployment rate ever people say the UK has gone to the dogs? Socialism seems a great idea until you spent everyone else’s money. France,Italy, Spain etc etc would really prefer our current economic situation than their own. Even with the mess that Brexit is and I totally agree on that, we as a nation have the ability, talent and skill to overcome this whatever the outcome. Our politicians and media unfortunately, right across the spectrum don’t all get this.
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Was Chirac the socialist in France, or was Sarkozy?

Noticed a bit of a trend, where countries whose economies have done poorly automatically become "socialist", while gently eliding the bit where the countries in Europe who have generally elected actual socialists have done fairly well economically...the Social Democrats held power for an unbroken stretch of 12 years between 1994 - 2006, during which the country's debt-to-GDP dropped dramatically, and Sweden now has the healthiest balance sheet of any European country save Norway (which has the advantage of North Sea oil wealth).
 
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