Surprising since he was so sure Obama was not born in the US.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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The line is getting blurred, with liberals getting screamed at and being called fascists. The left is getting more radical proposing free **** for everyone, except for the people actually making the money and employing the people. Open borders with guaranteed government job, free housing, free healthcare free college education come one come all. An extra 20 million getting hand outs will hike the tax bill ( but at least they will vote democrate)
If you are doing well in California you can currently enjoy a tax rate of 52%, throw in all the free **** for others and watch that 52% go only in one direction
I did not say any country was paying 80% for the top 1% , but it's what a lot youngsters want if it gets them free ****, and they will be the largest voting block
It's just you have a 2 party system in America. Economically liberals are right wing wanting free trade and all that.
Compare your liberal elite to Corbyn and you'll see the difference.
Either way 45 % well off tax, free education, healthcare and largely open borders is how it's worked in the UK for quite a long time more so in Scotland. It's not exactly radical.
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And with amazingly perfect timing, here's socialist Corbyn launching an attack on your liberal elite tech companies to demonstrate how they're not on the same side.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45271286
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45271286
True enough, but college and healthcare is soooo much more expensive in the US, also those existing college debts would need to be forgiven which is another 1.3 trillion, and if you forgive college debt, then lets forgive medical debt as well which will be the next step.
With millions more immigrants than the British model, 75% are on some kind of welfare your 45% jumps to Swedens level of 60% or even more, and then you add on California State tax of 15% and the Hollywood Elite will get their 80% tax which they so justly deserve
Immigration actually makes healthcare cheaper due to the increase in life expectancy meaning you need more working class to support more retirees. We're actually struggling due to the decreased immigration were having now due to that.
Not sure why you have to forgive debts?
But yeah social healthcare is far cheaper per person than private.
The aim was to point out how utterly ludicrous your claim was that there might be an 80% tax rate given that there isn't one anywhere at all in the world. Your hero Trump gets away with ludicrous claims but down here in the real world you get called out.
How utterly awful it would be to have a country where the government forgives your medical bills and pays them out of general taxation. I just can't imagine how horrible it would be to live in such a place. Simply frightful.
Vin
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It may surprise you that I would consider myself a liberal, I am all for paid health care (I think a mixture of private and state run is perfect), I am for paid for higher education and skills colleges, I am for giving the choice to women on abortion. But I am against pointing the finger at the rich and saying that they must pay for everything and how dare they have more than 1 house and the like.
I am against state run entities in general because over time they tend to go to the dogs.
I am enjoying the Trump reign, I would have voted for him mainly because the other side had such a piss poor agenda. I think that treating people like children and taking their money in taxes is not the way to go, let the people buy their own healthcare or get it through their job. 200 people all working in a factory for example band together to get a better health care deal on the free market, opt out of paying the government tax but still get better private cover.
Trump is not a presidential person, he is a liar and has cheated on every wife, yet I do not think he is racist, just totally insensitive to race, he is a person of the 70s, for example if back then you came back from holiday and you told your friends it was a **** hole, no one would bring the race of the population into it (for example i grew up in Southampton in the 70´s and there were parts that were **** holes, yet I love all of you
) But I also enjoy playing devils advocate, and Trump will still win in 2020 because he is seen to be doing a good job
With regards to 80% tax, In sweden its just over 60% which is looked at as an ideal by many on the left, add on California state tax currently at 15% and only getting higher, and there you have 80%
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Why is paying taxes childlike? i thought people called paying taxes part of becoming an adultIt may surprise you that I would consider myself a liberal, I am all for paid health care (I think a mixture of private and state run is perfect), I am for paid for higher education and skills colleges, I am for giving the choice to women on abortion. But I am against pointing the finger at the rich and saying that they must pay for everything and how dare they have more than 1 house and the like.
I am against state run entities in general because over time they tend to go to the dogs.
I am enjoying the Trump reign, I would have voted for him mainly because the other side had such a piss poor agenda. I think that treating people like children and taking their money in taxes is not the way to go, let the people buy their own healthcare or get it through their job. 200 people all working in a factory for example band together to get a better health care deal on the free market, opt out of paying the government tax but still get better private cover.
Trump is not a presidential person, he is a liar and has cheated on every wife, yet I do not think he is racist, just totally insensitive to race, he is a person of the 70s, for example if back then you came back from holiday and you told your friends it was a **** hole, no one would bring the race of the population into it (for example i grew up in Southampton in the 70´s and there were parts that were **** holes, yet I love all of you
But I also enjoy playing devils advocate, and Trump will still win in 2020 because he is seen to be doing a good job
Getting it through a company is the same social principle just on a smaller and less efficient scale with the healthcare provider taking profit so the entire process costs more. thus why the average American is paying far more on healthcare than in Canada or the UK without the same kind of security as you get from government provided social healthcare. We do have optional private healthcare in the UK though.
also, if you think state run entities go to the dogs, you should see our train service.
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Why is paying taxes childlike? i thought people called paying taxes part of becoming an adult
Getting it through a company is the same social principle just on a smaller and less efficient scale with the healthcare provider taking profit so the entire process costs more. thus why the average American is paying far more on healthcare than in Canada or the UK without the same kind of security as you get from government provided social healthcare. We do have optional private healthcare in the UK though.
also, if you think state run entities go to the dogs, you should see our train service.
How privatised is the Railway? The vast majority of investment in the railways is by the state.
Which is then controlled by private companies which means you have the worst of both worlds. the bureaucracy of government. the lack of communication from multiple separate companies + Network rail working together. no competition other than who can tell the best lies to receive the initial contract. Less economy of scale. Sure there's money invested at the start by the private firms but the idea is they will make a profit out of it. Government could just take a loan for the same effect and risk. (but borrowing is a bad word)
Yep - and a huge slice of revenue is siphoned off by franchises who pay regular dividends to their shareholders. The franchise system’s an unconscionable con and it doesn’t work.
Yeah, that's basically what I mean by its similar to a loan but I didn't make it clear.
With a loan you get some free money invested in the railway then pay it back via interest over the length of the contract.
With this system the government get a load of free money invested in the railway then have to pay it back via profits taken out by the company over the length of the contract.
In both cases it needs to be bailed out with government money if plan fails.
They're basically doing what they criticise Labour so much for but without the accountability.
I agree. I think the problem is as with everything in our political spectrum that people don't accept there is any middle option. The only perspective viewed from the other side is:
The left want everything state run and don't care about waste.
The right want everything privatised and class everything other than profit as waste.
I think the vast majority of voters (that aren't full on hard left or hard right) think it should be nationalised but are also sceptical about the amount of waste.
Meaning that we want these things nationalised but think there is a lot of "jobs for the boys" going on and a lot of money siphoned off within the state run bodies.
I think you all know that I think the railways and NHS should be fully state run and owned but there should be much more serious work on tackling those within these systems from creating jobs for their mates with good pay to boot.
But while the left and right are so obsessed with "dismissing" any suggestion of waste within the system and the right obsessed with cutting waste by letting external non governments "streamline" these things it never gets tackled. All the while those that are benefitting (both in the state sector and private) rub their hands.
Agree, Imps. I don’t understand and have never got it, as to why nationalised industry can’t be run on the same basis as private, except with profits either being ploughed back into the business or paying back the tax payer.
Personally, I’m with the view that infrastructure and utilities should be owned by the government, but not with the old “we can spend anything we like and not be accountable to anyone” attitude that doomed our car and motorbike industries. Have them nationalised, yes, but set them profit levels to attain and then put some of it back into the business (eg : new rolling stock for railways) and the rest into a holding fund for later use. Maybe I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one ....
I remember having these kind of conversations with my old man before he passed away - he was a lifelong labour supporter, but was horrified with what happened to British Leyland, etc and hated Tony Blair .......
I think it's because if a time comes when the correct financial decision is to, say, close a unit of the business somewhere, the MP for the area kicks up a stink. With a private company they might send him away with a flea in his ear while a public organisation daren't do what's best for the business.
So, as an example, Ford decided the Southampton plant had to close for the good of their business and did it. Would a government-owned Ford do the same?
Vin
I think its unwise to say what you believe 'the left' want, represent them as more extreme than they might themselves and then use this extreme version of their views against them. We are all generally a mix of left, right and middle (i.e. the majority of voters) and the hard left (or right) are a minority.
I don't believe many people on the left these days want everything state run. And I was thinking the right probably don't want everything privatised and then I realised, when you consider it, what exactly is state run these days?
NHS internal market, G4 prisons, Private Care Agencies, Trains, Buses, Utilities, Water, Energy ... all privatised. Not much left is there?
All on the idealistic assumption that competition makes everything better for the consumer when we all see evidence that it sometimes makes things rather better for the shareholders and directors and we end up with no choice (Trains, Water?) or choosing the best of a bad bunch (phone providers?)
We used to have a mixed economy and I thought that had some definite strengths.