Off Topic Politics Thread

[fatletiss]

Can't agree with you there fats, sorry. The Labour Party's position has shifted because Keir Starmer, an economist, has managed to persuade Jeremy Corbyn, an idealist, that it is in the UKs best economic interests to maintain membership of a Customs Union with our nearest neighbours and trading partners.

Starmers views are broadly in line with those of the vast majority of Labour Party members.

This is exactly how democratic institutions are supposed to work.

There’s always a will ... if it’s your side Being cynical as I am with all politicians, one might ask why he didn’t thoroughly investigate this in the first place ... would have been a bit late if he’d been at the negotiating table.

Ps. I’m neither side.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

Can't agree with you there fats, sorry. The Labour Party's position has shifted because Keir Starmer, an economist, has managed to persuade Jeremy Corbyn, an idealist, that it is in the UKs best economic interests to maintain membership of a Customs Union with our nearest neighbours and trading partners.

Starmers views are broadly in line with those of the vast majority of Labour Party members.

This is exactly how democratic institutions are supposed to work.

Heard Sir Keir Starmer QC described as a lot of things but never an economist. That's a new one on me.

 

[Archers Road]

Heard Sir Keir Starmer QC described as a lot of things but never an economist. That's a new one on me.

Obviously a good QC then. Presumably he has used the evidence to persuade his boss to adjust his position

 

[ImpSaint]

Can't agree with you there fats, sorry. The Labour Party's position has shifted because Keir Starmer, an economist, has managed to persuade Jeremy Corbyn, an idealist, that it is in the UKs best economic interests to maintain membership of a Customs Union with our nearest neighbours and trading partners.

Starmers views are broadly in line with those of the vast majority of Labour Party members.

This is exactly how democratic institutions are supposed to work.

All so naive. Corbyn hasn't changed stance at all. The new stance is "we are proposing asking for what we will not get" and thus not get and thus still getting Brexit.

That speech was all about cherry picking what Labour wants after a year of making fun of the Tories as wanting to cherry pick/have their cake and eat it.

The reality is that Corbyn is much more hard Brexit than the Tories. The Tories are trying to fudge an "in name only" setup which is why their back benchers are so vocal, whereas Corbyn is quite happy to see Brexit and the party itself knows it has to play the long game because of the constituents. Its all the wrong way round. All about fooling voters.

We will have to see how hard he pushes for this "customs union" that isn't the "single market."

 

[ImpSaint]

Heard Sir Keir Starmer QC described as a lot of things but never an economist. That's a new one on me.

economical with his grasp of reality.

 

[Archers Road]

All so naive. Corbyn hasn't changed stance at all. The new stance is "we are proposing asking for what we will not get" and thus not get and thus still getting Brexit.

That speech was all about cherry picking what Labour wants after a year of making fun of the Tories as wanting to cherry pick/have their cake and eat it.

The reality is that Corbyn is much more hard Brexit than the Tories. The Tories are trying to fudge an "in name only" setup which is why their back benchers are so vocal, whereas Corbyn is quite happy to see Brexit and the party itself knows it has to play the long game because of the constituents. Its all the wrong way round. All about fooling voters.

We will have to see how hard he pushes for this "customs union" that isn't the "single market."

Sorry Imps, your thinking is, once again, so convoluted that I can't possibly follow it.

Sometimes it's far simpler - and closer to the truth - to take what people say at face value

 

[VocalMinority]

Sorry Imps, your thinking is, once again, so convoluted that I can't possibly follow it.

Sometimes it's far simpler - and closer to the truth - to take what people say at face value

I think he's saying that Corbyn expects not to be able to negotiate a customs union so he can say at least he tried and get free votes before falling back.


However since there won't be an election it's not Corbyn who will end up negotiating this and I think it will be a commons vote(?) Which means it will be the conservatives negotiating it (¿)

Which makes this whole thing very confusing to me.

I'm expecting other conservative cynics to say that they will fail to negatiote a customs union and will end up in the free market with eu rules and betray brexit lol.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I think he's saying that Corbyn expects not to be able to negotiate a customs union so he can say at least he tried and get free votes before falling back.


However since there won't be an election it's not Corbyn who will end up negotiating this and I think it will be a commons vote(?) Which means it will be the conservatives negotiating it (¿)

Which makes this whole thing very confusing to me.

I'm expecting other conservative cynics to say that they will fail to negatiote a customs union and will end up in the free market with eu rules and betray brexit lol.

Corbyn knows he will get support from pro-remain Tories in a vote over a customs union. He’ll probably get the DUP support as well, so he’ll win a commons vote over this, even if some Labour MP’s vote against him.

 

[Puck]

Corbyn knows he will get support from pro-remain Tories in a vote over a customs union. He’ll probably get the DUP support as well, so he’ll win a commons vote over this, even if some Labour MP’s vote against him.

Indeed, it’s all tactical and the situation you describe is quite possible. And in that event May will probably have to call a vote of confidence in the government’s policy on leaving the EU just as John Major did on Maastricht. The vast majority of the rebels and the DUP would then fall into line and you’d probably see the likes of Frank Field abstain or even support the government.

 

[VocalMinority]

Corbyn knows he will get support from pro-remain Tories in a vote over a customs union. He’ll probably get the DUP support as well, so he’ll win a commons vote over this, even if some Labour MP’s vote against him.

That's my thinking. So even if it's not possible to negotiate a customs union with the EU it will be the conservatives that fail.

Politically I think it's a genius move as I cant see labour losing out whatever happens. It's going to disrupt the conservatives, win support within the labour party and both pro eu and soft brexit voters. If it fails to get through the commons then it's the conservatives fault or if it fails to get negotiated then it's the conservatives fault.

 

[ImpSaint]

I think he's saying that Corbyn expects not to be able to negotiate a customs union so he can say at least he tried and get free votes before falling back.


However since there won't be an election it's not Corbyn who will end up negotiating this and I think it will be a commons vote(?) Which means it will be the conservatives negotiating it (¿)

Which makes this whole thing very confusing to me.

I'm expecting other conservative cynics to say that they will fail to negatiote a customs union and will end up in the free market with eu rules and betray brexit lol.

Spot on Andrew Neil nailed it this morning. Labour are putting forward something that the EU has already ruled out but they can pass off as them presenting a "pragmatic alternative" whilst knowing they will not be in a position to ever have to implement it.

However that could go tits up with the EU playing dirty tactics today as they could well bring the government down if they end up stirring the DUP support and then Jeremy will be much closer to having to try to deal with the fact that the EU has already ruled out Corbyn's cherry picking customs union. Another of those that bang on about "divide and rule" being something they despise yet they are doing exactly that trying to stir up the different parts of the union to help their cause

Anyways. Listening to the BBC banging on about red warnings and vast snowfalls of 10-20cm. Not much mention of Lincoln other than "road problems." We woke up to 20cm and it has not stopped all day. 10-20cm through the day? Lucky them. The army and RAF have been called out to assist the emergency services in Lincolnshire with 30-40cm beds of untouched snow on the paths and in the park. My greyhound was walking over the park field earlier and you could only see his head and the top 10cm of his back.....and he is a big 40kg greyhound............from Ireland.........he has no idea whether he will be allowed to stay.

 

[Missing Lambo]

My greyhound was walking over the park field earlier and you could only see his head and the top 10cm of his back.....and he is a big 40kg greyhound............from Ireland.........he has no idea whether he will be allowed to stay.

Glad to see your sense of humour didn't get lost in the snow, Imps. Well, made me laugh!

 

[San Tejón]

Yay, MPs are getting a pay rise, of 1.8%.
Well they are obviously worth it.

https://evolvepolitics.com/mps-just-got-handed-another-pay-rise-double-amount-tories-gave-nurses/

 

[ImpSaint]

Glad to see your sense of humour didn't get lost in the snow, Imps. Well, made me laugh!

This is Lincolnshire and the modern era. The liberal modern BBC telling everyone to stay inside because its snowing and dangerous yet the park is full. In a few months the BBC will be banging on about getting out and enjoying the nice weather and everybody will lock themselves inside to watch telly again.

The BBC should try a bit of reverse psychology telling people to lock their doors and stay on the playstation all day long and then maybe they wouldn't be so unhealthy with vitamin D defficiency everywhere.

They put all these food programs on making fresh food from fresh ingredients and it makes everyone run to the McDonalds so I'm convinced I am right on this one.

 

[Saints_Alive]

This is Lincolnshire and the modern era. The liberal modern BBC telling everyone to stay inside because its snowing and dangerous yet the park is full. In a few months the BBC will be banging on about getting out and enjoying the nice weather and everybody will lock themselves inside to watch telly again.

The BBC should try a bit of reverse psychology telling people to lock their doors and stay on the playstation all day long and then maybe they wouldn't be so unhealthy with vitamin D defficiency everywhere.

They put all these food programs on making fresh food from fresh ingredients and it makes everyone run to the McDonalds so I'm convinced I am right on this one.

Would you rather have the Yank media, Imps?

God bless Auntie Beeb!....

 

[Missing Lambo]

This is Lincolnshire and the modern era. The liberal modern BBC telling everyone to stay inside because its snowing and dangerous yet the park is full. In a few months the BBC will be banging on about getting out and enjoying the nice weather and everybody will lock themselves inside to watch telly again.

The BBC should try a bit of reverse psychology telling people to lock their doors and stay on the playstation all day long and then maybe they wouldn't be so unhealthy with vitamin D defficiency everywhere.

They put all these food programs on making fresh food from fresh ingredients and it makes everyone run to the McDonalds so I'm convinced I am right on this one.

You do realise you're either spot on or totally ****ing mad, don't you?!

 

[Saints_Alive]

You do realise you're either spot on or totally ****ing mad, don't you?!

I'm not saying which one I think it is!...

 

[Missing Lambo]

I'm not saying which one I think it is!...

Neither am I. The worrying thing is both could be true. Just because you're paranoid etc.

 

[Libby]

Would you rather have the Yank media, Imps?

God bless Auntie Beeb!....

The Auntie Beeb that covered up years of noncing you mean?

'god bless' indeed.

 

[Saints_Alive]

The Auntie Beeb that covered up years of noncing you mean?

'god bless' indeed.

Yes that is obviously disgraceful, but i'm referring to having a public service media that reports news as it is and isn't just a propaganda tool for the rulers of the country. We are lucky to have that privilege and it will be sorely missed if it is ever lost IMO.