I long for the day when the best people just get the job or part and we don't have quotas/ positive discrimination. Then we will truly have equality.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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its not about actors in this case its an audience thing, similar to how much coverage Man United get compared to us. The only reason we get any coverage at all is because they effectively have to. If the BBC just went with what gets the most views every time (because the top 6 are the best) we would end up with nothing.
Some shocking stuff being reported about disability assessments, with claims that people with Downs Syndrome are being asked “When did you catch it” (Downs)?
A 39 page report to be released next week, with more than 4000 personal submissions.
https://evolvepolitics.com/dwp-disa...ople-with-downs-syndrome-when-they-caught-it/
A 39 page report to be released next week, with more than 4000 personal submissions.
https://evolvepolitics.com/dwp-disa...ople-with-downs-syndrome-when-they-caught-it/
Dude, how could it have been “much anticipated” if it was kept quiet? People have to know about it to anticipate it. And indeed it is much anticipated. You realize it is based on a comic book from the 60’s?
But I like how your ignorance means everyone else is racist. That’s some hilarious logic right there. Are you sure you’re not Donald Trump?
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Get off your high horse. I had not heard that the film was being made. Star Wars was much anticipated. We heard non stop many months before the release date about when it would be released. It was all over the news and current affairs, mentions here, mentions there. Was built up across the media and thus even if it weren't Star Wars would be guaranteed the box office smash in the first week through the hype.
First I heard of this film, and I do watch (have on in the background) quite a lot of current affairs and news programs and the first mention I noticed of this film was telling us it was much anticipated a couple of days before it was due for its premiere. HENCE WHY I QUESTIONED IT BEING DESCRIBED AS MUCH ANTICIPATED.
You can **** right off with constantly calling me or implying I'm a racist, try and realise that this is not the US so if it has been "much anticipated" in the US it has hardly been publicised in the UK on MSM platforms (unless they have been using code to fool me) and actually try to read my posts before getting on your "right on, libtard, must attack anyone who isn't on message" mission.
My wife is black. She hadn't heard of it either. She hasn't been anticipating it either, probably because she also has not heard it mentioned on UK platforms (nor Portuguese platforms.) She will however most likely want to watch it because she is black and there is a lot of hype now within black circles about the film. That is not me being racist. It is me being cynical yet again about those who bang on about equality, diversity etc having zero understanding about what those words mean instead thinking that parity or positive discrimination is equality.
I am not questioning that the comic is mainly black characters so the film is being accurate to the comic (not heard of the comic either so I am assuming.) I'm fine with that. I am questioning the assertion that the film is a great example of diversity when it isn't. It is a great example of uniformity of the kind they are complaining happens the other way round. If you can;t see that I am not moaning the film is "black" but the use of the term diversity then you really need to read properly.
And no I'm not Trump. I am not on twitter, never have been. I am however a white male that will be an old white male in a couple of decades
Dude? I know the snowboarders are on but grow up. Who calls people dude? On a forum that is about the English game? Even British kids don't call people dude. Is that the yank equivalent of me saying "listen Pal" at the beginning of a post to claim some superiority? I suppose that it makes a break from all the planks on TV and everywhere else that start every sentence with "So" these days. eh Pal!!
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Come on guys lets ease up a bit please........impSaint and and I sorry I ruined the party............ it is always easy to misunderstand peoples motives and thoughts in print. so please no more dudes or the like and lets just stay friends failing that put each other on ignore.
It's a Marvel film. They are always highly anticipated.
But let's just that indeed someone haven't heard of it nor their wife who apparently follows these things. If you weren't aware of this movie until the release date, then the media is hardly ramming this down your throat in the name of black diversity then, are they?
There's no logical path that can get you from "I haven't heard of this movie, they just mentioned on a TV" to "the press is out to get white people." Is the press pro-white racist every time we find out about a "much anticipated" movie with white people? I'm not trying to look into anyone's head. I can look at an argument and see that the statement and conclusion is racist in and of itself.
If you want to have a political thread, then I'm going to call out racism when I see it. I apologize to the mods, as I understand you have better things to do. I personally, would recommend that you not have this thread. But if you're going to have it, then just go ahead and ban me. Because I'm going to keep pointing racism logic and twisted facts when I see it. And to be honest, it happens with regularity on this thread.
But let's just that indeed someone haven't heard of it nor their wife who apparently follows these things. If you weren't aware of this movie until the release date, then the media is hardly ramming this down your throat in the name of black diversity then, are they?
There's no logical path that can get you from "I haven't heard of this movie, they just mentioned on a TV" to "the press is out to get white people." Is the press pro-white racist every time we find out about a "much anticipated" movie with white people? I'm not trying to look into anyone's head. I can look at an argument and see that the statement and conclusion is racist in and of itself.
If you want to have a political thread, then I'm going to call out racism when I see it. I apologize to the mods, as I understand you have better things to do. I personally, would recommend that you not have this thread. But if you're going to have it, then just go ahead and ban me. Because I'm going to keep pointing racism logic and twisted facts when I see it. And to be honest, it happens with regularity on this thread.
See this is where you have it wrong and have not read what I said. I did not say they had rammed it down our throats is the name of black diversity (is there such a thing as black diversity? surely that in itself is an oxymoron.) In fact I did not say they had rammed it down our throats at all. I merely questioned why they were saying it was anything to do with diversity let alone a great example of diversity.
I get where you are coming from though. It was much anticipated by a select few so they are right to say it was much anticipated. Fair does you can have that one.
Where do you get this "pro white racist" angle from? I was questioning their use of terminology and you get to "any challenge to anything = Trumpist and white racist." I think you lot have paranoia about a lot of things and just can't read or hear anything without seeing an attack. Keep screaming racist though. You're all very practiced at it that you seem to have convinced yourself that it is true.
Call out racism is fine but you seem to be just like my kids that say "racist" any time the word black is used (whether it be by my wife or I or anyone else.) Probably because they are taught about it at school and are just confused by the barrage of "what to think" that they seem to have no understanding of what these things mean anymore.
Imp, have you read the later piece the bbc made on this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-42860564
Might clarify why your usage of diversity here is wrong. Might help your understanding if you think of it as inclusion rather than diversity as you seem to have a very narrow definition of diversity.
I understand what the article writer is getting at but that does not change the fact that this is not diversity. It is uniformity of the opposite kind that is/was being complained about.
The article writer rightly states that he grew up with no black icons he could identify with. I'll not get into there being no ugly skinny icons I could identify with (Inspector gadget doesn't count) but what we have here is not diversity. If the film's main character was black and all the other parts were mixed that is diverse.
What this film represents to me is the opposite of diversity but is typical of what seems to be the modern progressive way. Instead of trying to "merge" cultures or differences it tries to keep them separate. It sets itself up in opposition to the white dominated films rather than progress things it says "we are different" rather than "we are all the same."
It sets a challenge where the very thing that people are complaining about in Trump is being challenged by the exact same thing by the other side. the very people (I am not talking about black and white or any other ethnicity or demographic here because most people are merely pawns for those that set these narratives) that bang on about equality, diversity, multicultural communities then champion keeping everything separate. "This is our film." Of course no-one is stopping white people from watching it or enjoying it. No-one stops black people from watching "white films" however you can bet the narrative is nothing to do with inclusion or diversity no matter how much those words are used.
There is a vast problem now where everything is being politicised. The Oscars are now not worth anything because it doesn't matter if your film is good. It's eurovision and we need in our 4 nominations a representative from LGBT, ethnic minority oh and female. It is becoming Eurovision.
It isn;t this film I am complaining about. It is the language used around the film. It is politically charged for a reason. And the emotional language they use belies what it actually is. YEs it is a film that has challenged Hollywood. "You don't give black people the roles they deserve, so we will make a film that does." I have no problem with that. But that is not diversity. It is our uniformity to challenge your uniformity.
Will we end up in a few years time of "progression" in a scenario where black people feel too intimidated by their own community to go and watch "white films?" Because that is the route we are going down here. Are you with us or against us. Self segregation.
This world has no hope of ever coming together.
Pretty much everything you said here is just wrong and it sounds like your from the 1700's dressing black people up in white mans clothing. Your also merging two different issues.
No I am not. In simple terms they have given up the fight. Rather than fight to be part of something they are saying "OK we will make our own instead" and then the language surrounding it is trying to say "now we are part of it." That is what I am trying to say.
And the "dressing black people up in white man's clothing" statement is way off. I couldn't care less whose clothing it is. No-one should be saying "you can't wear this because you are X"
Cultural appropriation etc. WTF is white man's clothing? Red coat with gold trim and black hat?
or baseball/basketball gear?
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and that is precisely what I am saying is fundamentally wrong with your way of thinking and what resulted in this:
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You may say you don't care what they wear but your own statements about integration betray you there. when you try to be a part of another culture in the way you are suggesting, the first thing you change is clothing because clothing is a massive part of culture. so as much as you try to deny it, you ARE saying that.
The fight is to allow them to be their own and be a part of something bigger, like this guy:
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He's representing his own people and even competing against other groups, but is he part of something bigger? absolutely.
You will never get rid of minorities, because if you get rid of one group, the you can subdivide into something even smaller(which is why you have trouble defining white mans clothing). So to suggest trying to do that is suggesting the impossible. so yes, you need to both say: "okay you can be your own", and "now you're part of it."
I don't really want to get involved in this discussion (as I'm not really sure what you are trying to say) but if you are saying Imps is racist from his posts I think you are going way over the top. I'm just taking that from the picture you've chosen to post.
I'm not saying he's racist. I know he doesn't want to return to that. but thats what his suggestions will lead to, has led to. (in extreme).
Edit: Honestly i think he's just being stubborn in not admitting he was wrong about black panther.
I don't look at Vocal Minority's posts as saying I am racist. It is quite obvious from reading that he misunderstands what I am trying to say probably because I am very bad at saying it. I can see that he sees from my words that I am suggesting everybody should assimilate/conform to be part of something which is not what I mean although I can understand how my use of words/language might suggest that.
I don;t think everybody should look, speak, act British if they want to be part of Britain etc. Him displaying the chap celebrating his culture as if that is not what I mean showed that we are misunderstanding each other. I am all for different cultures mixing together. Sharing cultures. That is what I understand "multicultural" to be. For everybody to share, learn and enjoy each other's cultures.
The problem I have is that increasingly it is not about sharing. It is about ownership. "This is ours. Keep your hands off" which is what I thought we were trying to get past. The clothes we wear, the food we eat, the things we do all the time every day have been and continue to be influenced by inclusion of different cultures.
Take something as simple as "taking a coffee." What seems to be happening these days though is (from that simple example and ignore the country because I can't be bothered to research as it is a crude example) "Only Italians can "take a coffee."
Vocal minority is quite different to ISIRTP where VM obviously sees that there is a lack of understanding or misunderstanding from me (which quite possibly is irreversible) and thus takes that into account whereas ISIRTP is not interested in why. He sees nothing other than black and white. If you don't understand (or could never understand) then you are racist. There is no grey. You either 100% understand or you are racist. That is not true at all and there plenty of people who do not or could never understand that are not racist.
And I'm not being stubborn about Black Panther. I think that making an (virtually) all black film is fine. The language surrounding it and what it is being said to represent is what I have a problem with. It think it is a road that leads to everybody separating rather than coming together to share. That is not people coming together to assimilate and conform but to come together and share.
What next? LGBT forming their own gay only catholic church? Women forming a women only banking sector?
The nerd becomes superhero comment ignores the fact that these nerds that become superheroes are actually very handsome, f**** magnets that are dressed up as nerds and made ugly in the beginning of the films. They aren't at all ugly skinny nerds. They are pretty boys with gym bodies. That is not the same thing. I want an ugly big nosed skinny superhero. And not of the make fun Kickass variety.
p.s. Vocal Minority knows I was being tongue in cheek r.e. the "red coat" suggestion which I would have thought I made obvious with my reverse comment r.e. Baseball/Basketball clothing that is (or was) the adopted "white clothing" of most black people we see. I was being cheeky with both.
So the DWP, over the last two years, have spent £108m fighting legal battles aimed at taking benefits away from people with disabilities, most of which they lost.
Why can’t the cost be passed over to the companies doing the inaccurate assessments? Or, better still, let’s change the system to something that resembles humane.
Why can’t the cost be passed over to the companies doing the inaccurate assessments? Or, better still, let’s change the system to something that resembles humane.
duuuh! superhero films are moronic in their nature. hardly worth falling out about on a politics thread!
Interesting points, Imps. I worked for a union once where there was an endless debate about creating ring-fenced seats on the Executive for: Black and ME members; LGBT members; disabled members. It was pointed out that the Executive had duly elected officers who were black, others who were openly gay, and those who had disabilities. Still the debate raged. I left and went to another union before the debate was closed when it was decided to establish these three seats. I was intrigued. Let's take the LGBT. Who votes for this ring-fenced post? LGBT members? So how do you establish who these members are without becoming intrusive?
I want to live in a society where race, gender, orientation or disability is irrelevant. This doesn't strike me as the way to do it, and I agree with you, Imps, that this divisive principle can be seen in your example. Interesting debate. Stopped me thinking about how **** my football team is for a moment!