Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Delete "Foreign." Is he even Secretary material? I am expecting Clinky Johnson to disappear from politics in the next 12 months and to appear on "I'm a Celebrity, get me out of here."
Not really but then I don't think May is PM material, Hammond Chancellor material, Rudd Home Secretary material.................the list would go on
Judged by the standard of those 3 he's doing a great job. lol, but No I don't think he is top job material.Not really but then I don't think May is PM material, Hammond Chancellor material, Rudd Home Secretary material.................the list would go on
I just wonder if the next Tory party leader will come from Australia's Liberal Party. Oz's Liberal Party being the equivalent of the UK Conservative Party. With the Conservative Government set on course for Brexit, getting someone from there could be a masterstroke of a stunt as the UK seeks to pull off new trade deals post Brexit.
I think you'll find within Tory circles that May is being talked of as needing to get the boot now, the cabinet refreshed with newer young faces free of the cliques that keep the same faces in there. The Tory cabinet these days looks like the old manager's merry-go-round were the same faces just keep revolving.
There is also talk of conceding we are losing in 2022, so get Boris in to push Brexit through and then let him fall under a bus for the defeat in 2022, leaving the hot seat open for those fresh faces that have been given their 4 years of experience in cabinet.
Hard to say if it is possible though. Would definitely be better to reach 2022 with lots of new faces to pick a leader from than the cozy club we have at the moe (and seem to have had for a long time.
The May-Hammond-Rudd axis of power is taking a battering from members at the moment.
Personally I would ditch her and put Gove in charge if we aren't going to win in 2022. He is the go to man for tough jobs and would probably sacrifice himself for the party. He also has enough power to be able to get party support to ditch the tired old guard. He is still very popular with Tory members.
There are 6 on minus ratings and they are all centrists not Tories (satisfaction ratings
Patrick Mcloughlin (always bottom anyway) -38.6
Philip Hammond -37.0
Amber Rudd -8.6
Liz Truss -2.8
Theresa May -1.7
Justine Greening -1.1
This was before Hammond and Rudd made their speeches. They will have tanked further after those which are being torn into by the membership. This is quite honestly the worst state the parliamentary party has been in in my memory. Worse than Major years and the Blair years.
This comment line on Amber Rudd's speech (* = OP, ** = reply 1, *** = reply 3 etc.) shows what I mean:
*No politically correct box unticked. No soft left hoop unjumped through. No Blairite policy unstolen. No Sadiq Kahn multi-culti cliche unsaid.
**and no Conservative policies.
***Instead we get the most Draconian measures on our freedom in peacetime.
****“I want to make sure those who view......far-right propaganda........face the full force of the law,” said Rudd.
Can anyone explain what constitutes far-right propaganda? Also, is it OK to view far-left propaganda?
I'm not sure she knows what she's doing.
Double party time for Corbyn fans.
And you really do need to stop thinking we can parachute politicians into the PM role. You have to be an elected MP to become PM. Even if someone decided Obama would be a good choice for leader and someone stepped aside to let him go for the by election there is no saying he would win, nor that the public would take too kindly to a quite obvious abuse of the system like that.
He barely registers as a human. Luckily for him there's a worse example around who made President.
So the Catalan Independence vote has been deemed illegal. Oh boy, is there going to be some unrest after that: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014
Not really but then I don't think May is PM material, Hammond Chancellor material, Rudd Home Secretary material.................the list would go on
I don't think Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott are PM, Chancellor and Home Secretary material either. We are in a sorry state!
I think you'll find within Tory circles that May is being talked of as needing to get the boot now, the cabinet refreshed with newer young faces free of the cliques that keep the same faces in there. The Tory cabinet these days looks like the old manager's merry-go-round were the same faces just keep revolving.
There is also talk of conceding we are losing in 2022, so get Boris in to push Brexit through and then let him fall under a bus for the defeat in 2022, leaving the hot seat open for those fresh faces that have been given their 4 years of experience in cabinet.
Hard to say if it is possible though. Would definitely be better to reach 2022 with lots of new faces to pick a leader from than the cozy club we have at the moe (and seem to have had for a long time.
The May-Hammond-Rudd axis of power is taking a battering from members at the moment.
Personally I would ditch her and put Gove in charge if we aren't going to win in 2022. He is the go to man for tough jobs and would probably sacrifice himself for the party. He also has enough power to be able to get party support to ditch the tired old guard. He is still very popular with Tory members.
There are 6 on minus ratings and they are all centrists not Tories (satisfaction ratings
Patrick Mcloughlin (always bottom anyway) -38.6
Philip Hammond -37.0
Amber Rudd -8.6
Liz Truss -2.8
Theresa May -1.7
Justine Greening -1.1
This was before Hammond and Rudd made their speeches. They will have tanked further after those which are being torn into by the membership. This is quite honestly the worst state the parliamentary party has been in in my memory. Worse than Major years and the Blair years.
This comment line on Amber Rudd's speech (* = OP, ** = reply 1, *** = reply 3 etc.) shows what I mean:
*No politically correct box unticked. No soft left hoop unjumped through. No Blairite policy unstolen. No Sadiq Kahn multi-culti cliche unsaid.
**and no Conservative policies.
***Instead we get the most Draconian measures on our freedom in peacetime.
****“I want to make sure those who view......far-right propaganda........face the full force of the law,” said Rudd.
Can anyone explain what constitutes far-right propaganda? Also, is it OK to view far-left propaganda?
I'm not sure she knows what she's doing.
Double party time for Corbyn fans.
And you really do need to stop thinking we can parachute politicians into the PM role. You have to be an elected MP to become PM. Even if someone decided Obama would be a good choice for leader and someone stepped aside to let him go for the by election there is no saying he would win, nor that the public would take too kindly to a quite obvious abuse of the system like that.
Yet the Government parachuted in someone from Canada to run (down) the Coal Board. Haven't we had non-British people as Chairperson of the Bank of England? We have had non-English managers for our football, cricket and rugby teams who were received with muted criticism. Many were and still are acclaimed. So if we want to improve our stock of politicians, it is time for the political parties to recruit from overseas, find the overseas recruits seats that should be winnable in order to inject some freshness into the political scene. What Tory wouldn't like a red-neck Aussie spouting about how Australia controls immigration rather than enduring the polite tones of JRM? Conference would lap it up.
Did my eyes deceive me, or was Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Fein) alongside Arlene Foster (DUP) at the Tory Conference?
You know that wouldn't work in politics. Parachuting people straight into winnable seats is not how our politics works and it most definitely would not be acceptable to Brits for someone to come straight in and be PM. I'm not sure it should be either. It isn;t the same as hiring from abroad for "independent" bodies which are businesses.
And we do have non Brits in Parliament. However they have worked their way through in the usual manner, been selected, stood for election and then worked their way through. Gisele Stewart was a prime example although she stood down at the last election. Most of the "non British born" MPs in the house came over as children. You can't just bring a non Brit in with the specific aim of getting them elected and straight into the top job. Rajoy for one doesn't even qualify unless you want to hand someone instant British Citizenship as well.
You raise very valid and technically correct views. However, I am just thinking outside the box. Rajoy was my tongue in cheek choice because most Spanish would like to see him fall on his rather arrogant sword, while the UK seems home to inept politicans. Actually, Spain is brilliant at producing politicians who are useless. They can never agree on anything to get the country out of a crisis, which is where the country could be heading unless Rajoy comes off his high constitutional horse, while Senor Puidgemont (spelling) needs to hold back from his crazy mission to announce Catalan Independence. But I fear both ostriches have their heads so far up their own backsides that chaos will ensue as a result. Now the King has gone on TV and sided with the Spanish Government, not the brightest of things to do. He could have stayed neutral and tried to offer an olive leaf to the Catalans. So in Catalunya, some are saying Spain is not their country, the King is not their King. And the irony of all this is that Catalunya and Spain are both very much pro-EU.
As for a solution, the left parties need to get their act together to oust Rayoy as fast as possible and then get to talk with the Catalan Government. In my opinion, the Catalan issue could be resolved very easily. Allow Catalunya its referendum. So what if the vote came down in favour of independence. Both countries would have much to gain and little to lose but unfortunately the psyche is too much wedded in "nationalism" in Europe. It sucks and is so 19th century in reality. I prefer the idea of the 28 Nation Entity of the EU with National Parliaments gradually playing second fidde as we build a closer pan European state. At the end of it you would still have your personal freedom live and work wherever you want, after all the skills that you have can be used in any country. It is just a matter of learning the language.
See the problem I have with that is it would be lovely...........if we weren't humans........who of course are just animals. Much as we can pretend we are some super civilized form of animal it all boils down in the end to the animal instinct.
What you are describing is something that could never happen. The utopia of everybody getting along and agreeing with each other will never work in the long run. The only way it can even pass is for the EU state to rule by iron staff and that is not a free world, it is an authoritarian state, although Rudd seems to be wanting the UK to be an authoritarian state judging by today's speech.
In practice we could all live in shared houses with our friends..............but we all know within 6 months we would all be going mad at each other
It is much more than just learning the language. That is far too simplistic. You would need to erase memories and burn all historical records to remove differences that are inherent from history near and far. We may be the same species (virtually) but we may as well be Homo Sapiens vs erectus vs Neanderthalis due to the separation of evolutions. Alas history means that we will always feel different to each no matter how much EU utopians believe that it is possible.
You also have to concede that human/animal instinct will ruin it even if it could work. Like the globalists do already (although you disagree with me on that) utilising positions of power to make their pot bigger and the people's pot smaller. You are asking for an EU that works together but how can it work together when the whole EU setup is not equal? It is setup with different rules for each country. How long before British Farmers complain that they only get a third of the money French farmers get once we are all "virtually" one big state?
Human nature/animal instinct just will not let a project like this work in the long long term. That is why it hasn't happened and will never happen.
And while the UK constantly gets bashed for being full of nasty right wingers that hate foreigners, while France and Germany are lauded as the future we have yet another report that puts us way below the median and the opposite of the narrative. France and Germany are less tolerant than us:
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As for the Catalunya / Spain problems it isn't just Catalunya saying Spain is not their country. The national team had to halt training because the Spanish Fans were shouting to Gerard Pique that he is not Spanish because he supports independence.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...ard-pique-branded-11277058?service=responsive
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And just to say that it isn't just some Tory MPs manoeuvring to be PM. It is much bigger than that. Rudd is the preferred candidate of Cameron and Major with Lynton Crosby hired to try and keep her seat (she only just retained it with a majority of 346 in June.)
So the Centrists want her as leader!!! Hell surveillance, bye bye encryption. She wants to watch everybody all the time and thinks nothing of making things much easier to hack.
So the Centrists want her as leader!!! Hell surveillance, bye bye encryption. She wants to watch everybody all the time and thinks nothing of making things much easier to hack.
The whole Catalan situation has been created by politicians who have used the media to create a groundswell of support for Catalan independence. The reality is that Catalunya is one of the wealthier parts of Spain so it pays out more than it receives back. Redistribution of resoures seems quite sensible where there are big differences. If the politicans had focused on improving the infrastructure, education, other services and getting people to invest in the area nobody would have batted an eyelid. The Catalan leader (Pudgy) is however a nasty piece of work, highly manipulative and has created a crisis when there wasn't one. If he is not careful he will kill the goose that laid the golden Catalan egg.
So on Sunday he got the reaction he wanted from the Spanish state. The photos that were sent around the world was tonic he needed, so now he can cite the Spanish military (civil guards) lashing out at innocent victims as an example of the nasty evil Spanish state. The reality is that Rajoy is stupid and fell for Pudgy's trap. Spain deserves better than these two idiots running the show.
So on Sunday he got the reaction he wanted from the Spanish state. The photos that were sent around the world was tonic he needed, so now he can cite the Spanish military (civil guards) lashing out at innocent victims as an example of the nasty evil Spanish state. The reality is that Rajoy is stupid and fell for Pudgy's trap. Spain deserves better than these two idiots running the show.
I think you put a lot of the "credit" down to "Pudgy." We should be realising by now that anything like this has money behind it and quite often because more money can be earnt out of the mess!! Ukraine, The Arab Spring were all funded by big money to earn out of the crisis!!! I am surprised no-one has yet pointed a finger towards that friendly speculator across the pond yet!! Someone will be earning a fortune out of this crisis. I doubt it is solely down to Catalans and a manipulative leader!!!
Feel for her. She's doing her best to keep going, you've got to admire that. Horrible when you get a tickle like that.
