The BBC as usual not understanding. No need to be a "shy Tory" if you say you are purely voting because of Brexit. "I am voting Tory....but only because I want the best deal from Brexit."
Shy Tory vote will be back after (if) Brexit is done.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
The BBC as usual not understanding. No need to be a "shy Tory" if you say you are purely voting because of Brexit. "I am voting Tory....but only because I want the best deal from Brexit."
Shy Tory vote will be back after (if) Brexit is done.
She won't. The medialove their "tick box" people and draw straight linesand come to false conclusions.
Corbyn increased his voteshare because May was a disaster. All this talk from the left of "positive campaigns" and moaning about the politics of fear yet they did exactly the same. All of the left parties based their campaigns on "nasty Tories" and "fear the Tories."
Davidson did not win those seats in Scotland. The Union won them. Nicola Sturgeon and her obsession with independence won those seats.
Ruth Davidson is yet another Clegg/Cameron/Blair type actor with the fake pauses and repetitive false concern and sincerity slogan debating and speech style.
Boris? Do you really think he has a chance? I mean within the party? He was easily seen off last time. That is why Gove stood. Not to win but to make sure Boris didn't make the final 2. Boris does not have enough support without someone with lots of influence like Gove to bring more onside.
Simplistic, ideological naivety right there.
If the negotiations fall flat we will be dumped out. You are assuming the EU are playing the long game? We will reach the end and if there is no deal it will be very very hard to get the 27 countries to agree to an extension although as usual Germany will make the decision, lean on the others threatening their bailouts.
There is no way we will just revert to where we were and it is very naive to even think this.
You should want the best deal we can get and not naively think that if it goes tits up we just remain in there.
Last edited:
I agree with all your statements r.e. coming out and it being a "stand against the Bigots" statement is very true. However it unquestionably is cynically used to get a leg up, get a higher profile and garner demographical support by people in many professions.
Politicians and activists cynically use these things to herd votes "vote for Hillary because.....er well because she's a woman", "Vote for Obama because he's.....err black"
Most of us quite rightly say that it shouldn't matter what you are or represent and the left are very vocal about their hatred of identity politics. The politicians themselves don't push the angle but their teams and activists most definitely do and do not hide it.
Really? I thought I saw a lot of coverage, but I didn't see this directly. In fact, I thought May tried to make it a presidential type campaign with Corbyn playing the clown and her playing the umm....cough, strong an stable one. Conversely, I thought Corbyn just went on about what he was going to do. Whether we think it could be done or not.
Is it not hard to deny that Corbyn touched on things that people care about, that's why they voted for him? She wanted to make it to be all about Brexit, but Corbyn actually made it about people. That's what I saw anyway, but I'm not a seasoned political follower.
Last edited:
Spot on. May made it simply a question of "who do you want in no.10, me or Corbyn?", whereas Corbyn concentrated on the issues and, unlike the vast majority of the Tories and their backers in the press, didn't indulge in name-calling at all.
Then you are hearing what you want to hear. I agree with you on Theresa May doing the "fear" aspect. I am saying that they all did it though and if you listen to Corbyn's speeches most of it is about how bad the Tories are. Sturgeon is the one that continually goes on about not playing the fear card but all her speeches are about is "anything but the Tories" and "keep the Tories out."
Then we have this soundbite of "putting party before the country" which is laughable because they all do that. That is what politics is. The Fringe's may be able to put country before their party but that is why they are at the fringes. All the main contenders are in the game of trying to gain seats and they put their party first to try and gain seats.
Selective hearing on Corbyn, correct assessment on May. They both did it.
Tory speeches - Labour is bad because they will spend, spend, spend.
Labour/Lib Dems/SNP speeches - Tories are bad because they will cut, cut, cut.
That's the last few months of speeches wrapped up in 2 sentences.
Farron went further and decided not to call it "hard Brexit" anymore instead continuously going on about a "Tory hard Brexit."
There's a difference between calling the Tories out on what was in their manifesto, and the attempted character assassination of Corbyn that the Tories indulged in. You know this Imps, but for some reason won't acknowledge it.
The Tories? The whole of the Centrist movement including the TV media (BBC/CH4) the Blairites and the Tory centrists were involved in this character assasination.
I have said it for a long time. This lot do not believe in anything but centrism. Corbyn's "success" may have silenced the Blairites at the moment but they are saving face and unable to attack him at the moment. They didn't attack him because they thought his policies couldn't win an election. They attacked him because they thought his policies were mad.
The Tories, The Blairites, The liberal leaning screen media all went after him and they will again once the dust settles.
Mandelson yesterday speaking to Andrew Neill was not suddenly changing his tune like the "face saving" MPs have. He still attacked Corbyn.
Yes May was out to get Corbyn. I agree. I am saying it is disingenous that the left moan about "the politics of fear" when all of their speeches are about "fear of the Tories."
The Tories could have put out a "lovely" manifesto and it would still be the same from the SNP, Lib Dems, Greens and Labour..............."Nasty Tories, fear the Tories."
So you don't think it's justified to point out that the Tories plan to implement the Naylor Report and introduce the dementia tax then?
I can't understand anyone who gets irritated by someone announcing that they are Gay, it doesn't make any difference to their lives. Making an announcement of this kind stops the whispering of is he/she or isn't he/she and usually they only "come out" to their family and friends. It is only celebrities in the spotlight that feel the need to announce it to the general public for the reasons that I stated before.
I think the latter policy was very ill thought out. I am seething that Theresa May was so misjudged thinking that Brexit support was Theresa May support that she let Nick Timothy (a keynesian socialist) compose a manifesto without the differing factions of her party being consulted.
The "dementia" tax was an attempt at left wing politics which was incredibly misjudged because it actually hit normal people. These Tory centrists and Blairites seem to have no idea where the line between normal folks and rich folks lies.
However I think it disingenuous for parties that complained about the Tories buying the "grey vote" with the triple lock to suddenly change face and support the triple lock.
I also think it disingenuous that parties that go on and on about inheritance tax suddenly start taking an angle of supporting inheritances.
Don't get me wrong. I am furious with May. But this was a May failure and not a Tory failure. It won;t be all out civil war in the open like the Blairite vs Corbyn one was because they know Brexit has to be done and they know that they are at a point now (because of this election) where they are teetering on the precipice.
The Tories were bound into defending policies on the back foot as May kept announcing things without them even knowing and while the Blairites tactic of disowning the Labour manifesto and saying "This is Corbyn's manifesto and his alone" backfired on them the Tories tactic of trying to defend May backfired just as spectacularly.
The Centrist elements in the house (SNP, Lib Dems, Blairites and Centrist Tories) have had a massive failure in this election which should have been easy to see coming as Centrism has taken a huge hit in recent times.
The next 2 years will decide if they can avoid another 1997!!
People who think Boris has a chance are mad. If he does get in then it will only be a failure on the Tories like all the other failures with the centrist politicians of not really being able to read the mood of the public. They need someone sensible, that can deal with the media without nervousness and can think on their feet, and someone that is in solid Tory ground and not trying to position left wing views getting them spectacularly wrong.
Imps, just go look at the leaflets you got through the door if you kept them. the Conservative campaign was FAR more negative than the Labour campaign.
the Labour leaflet involved saying what the Tories are doing is wrong as you would expect, and included 3 lines of the pages dedicated to the the conservatives.everything else on the page was about promoting their own policies. the entire back page has exactly one mention of Tory despite being covered in text.
the Conservative leaflet had about 3 lines that weren't dedicated to insulting Corbyn and Labour. ( ripped up that leaflet after showing it to people but i was showing it to people precisely because of that point so i know it to be true. have the labour one in front of me)
I'm using this as an example because it is where they would present the main points of their campaign and its not something i went out to look for, its what they came to me with.
The Labour Campaign was far more positive.
the Labour leaflet involved saying what the Tories are doing is wrong as you would expect, and included 3 lines of the pages dedicated to the the conservatives.everything else on the page was about promoting their own policies. the entire back page has exactly one mention of Tory despite being covered in text.
the Conservative leaflet had about 3 lines that weren't dedicated to insulting Corbyn and Labour. ( ripped up that leaflet after showing it to people but i was showing it to people precisely because of that point so i know it to be true. have the labour one in front of me)
I'm using this as an example because it is where they would present the main points of their campaign and its not something i went out to look for, its what they came to me with.
The Labour Campaign was far more positive.
Fiona Hill, joint chief of staff to Theresa May, has resigned as well as Nick Timothy, May's advisor.
The leaflet(s) for my Labour MP were 1 sheet A5 flyers. did not have Corbyn mentioned much at all. It may as well just have had the words TORY CUTS on them.
I am not arguing what the Tory stuff had on them. We both know the Tories ran a crap campaign and most definitely were doing "fear politics."
I am merely saying that they all did the same. Corbyn's speeches had a lot of "nasty Tories" stuff in them. I'm rather puzzled as to how so many people seem to have filters on their hearing.
I don;t think any of the campaigns were positive at all. They were all just "t'other side are bad." And by that gauge if the Labour campaign was far more positive I guess 3% positivity is far more than 1% positivity
Everybody's campaigns were very negative IMO. Seems each election it gets more and more so to the point that in a decade there probably will be no need to even mention your own policies because it will just be like my kids "he nasty", "He's nastier", "She's even nastier." continue ad infinitum until you reach the devil or H word.
He can start it all he likes. He is not getting many favourable mentions on the Tory sites. Most of the talk is about fresh up and comers like Johnny Mercer, Zahawi, Kwasi, Cleverley, Suella Fernandes.
The usual cliche talk of people like Fallon, Boris (and others from the current cabal at the top) are getting a lot of groans.
Corbyn's lot will have mastered social media properly by the next election and we need to get away from this old fashioned "door knocking is all you need" and using TV media to spin things. Social media cuts out the TV media and thus stops them editing their own favourite soundbites.
Last edited: